Daddio

I don't want you to be rude, either, but what you're really saying is that KBB/Edmunds are wrong.

Maybe so, but tell them that. Please understand, good friend, that I surely hope you are right and KBB/Edmunds (with a huge national data base) are collectively wrong and/or have consistently mis-stated values. If you are right (and again as a 951 guy I sure hope you are), then that will help us both when we borrow for purchase or claim for insurance.

The key point here is, despite what you and I (as wonderful 951 guys) may hope and want, our nasty old bankers and insurance agents may think along KBB/Edmunds lines, whereupon we 951 guys may be in for a very rude shock. In that case, the pool of potential buyers at a higher price will be drastically reduced: One may still get the hope-for price, but may have to wait a lot longer and try a lot harder to get it.

A knowledgeable buyer or seller, acting in his own best interest, may wish to keep these unpleasant factors in mind before the transaction.

lart951

I understand that insurance companies would use kbb or edmund as a reference, but that does not apply to the real market value of the car. For example kbb gives me a private party value for a 1986 944 turbo with 150k miles, good condition of $ 2775.00. Now, if I am selling my car and someone comes and tells me that the Private value of my car according the kbb is $ 2775.00 and asks me if I would take that for the car, Do you know what my response would be? I would tell him to shove it up his ignorant ***. I dare you to find a 944 turbo in good condition for $ 2775.00. That is plain ignorance! No one on this board, that is familiar with the 944 turbo, will sell one for $ 2775.00> I don't know where you are from, but here in the States, that's not going to happen.

ColoradoBill

Avoiding the heated debate re KBB, I think the car is in the right range. New tires mean a "routine" replacement item is way down the road, and the adj Konis are a nice plus. If the belts are under 5K, that gives you a safe 25K or so on those, another important savings. Without the tires and fresh belts, I'd say 9-10, but this sounds like a good price to me, assuming the PPI checks out...

lart951

For the car in question 86 944 turbo with 59000 miles the KBB gives me a value of $ 4175.00 for a 951 in excellent condition. If the owner of this car takes that amount I am flying tonight and picking up the car tomorrow morning.

You obviously are a young kid or have not deal with Porsches very long.

last car that I sold was a 85.5 944 n/a with 188k miles for $ 3900.00 the kbb value for that car is $ 1575.00 in fair condition.

Take care

TRWright

I paid $10k for my car in March, and it was well worth every penny. KBB is not worth a **** for cars older than 5 years. It said my friends GEO storm was worth like $2500, and he would be lucky to sell it for $1000, it being in perfect shape. When I sold my BMW, KBB said it was worth like 11.5k, when they were selling on eBay for $15-16, and you were not able to find one at a dealer for under $17.5k. KBB is seriously a joke. I remember reading in the news some time ago about claims made against them for accepting money from certain manufacturers to drive their values up, and others down. I don't know if that is true or not, but KBB value is way different from market value, on most every car older than 5 years, especially specialty vehicles.

Daddio

Well then, perhaps we should collectively challenge KBB on the reliability of their data.

They claim to poll a wide variety of automotive sources, dealers and such, and presumably have some basis for their private party prices estimates. There appears to be a huge disconnect between values they report vs. values reported by Rennlist folks.

If KBB & Edmunds are as far off the mark as would be indicated by the comments above, then some folks (having been shortchanged in insurance settlements, for example) would seem to have a pretty strong action against them. Sorta like folks who relied on accounting firms for decisions about, say, Enron stock.

josephsc

For what it's worth, when my car was totaled, the insurance company (AAA) did not use KBB. Instead, they sent out an adjuster to get a fair market value for my car in my area -- and he got the valuation I would have put. It's might just be a California thing, but others around here have had similar experiences with their totaled cars. Personally, I challenge KBB by not subscribing to their services.

Now, as for Rennlist valuations for 944's, I think they still tend to be on the low-end -- and that's because we're mostly (but not all) penny-pinching DIYer types. As for the car in question -- without more info -- I'd say $8k max.

Dash01

Good information, and I thank you for it. Since any or all of will eventually be faced with valuation issues on our cars, I have a proposal:

Why not collaborate with a Rennlist sales data base? When we buy or sell a car, or one is totalled by insurance, members could enter the exact sales data along with pictures. That way, comparable sold or listed cars could be easily researched, and we'd have a good, verifiable analytical basis for pricing. Buyers and sellers would also find this useful, to avoid selling too cheaply, or buying too dearly. Knowledge is power.

Suppose your insurance company low-***** you on a claim settlement. You call up the Rennlist data base, and crank out a variety of sales of similar year, options, color, mileage, etc. and present that as proof of value. This is much more convincing to them than just moaning about 'how great my car was.'

It might also be useful to offer anectodal evidence about treatment by various insurance companies: If Brand X has a habit of jerk-around tactics or lowball settlements, other Rennlisters may find this useful when shopping insurance.

baltik

Update - went in for PPI - needs belts afterall, header has a small crack, pulley seal & oil pan gasket lightly leaking. turbo pump isn't working needless to say I didn't go for it at 11k.

Just curious - what kind of costs am i looking at to get the header fixed

TRWright

Out of all that, the only thing worth worrying about is the oil pan gasket, IMHO. . . .

ehall

Belts, if done by mech. 800.00. Turbo coolant pump 150.00 plus install labor. Oil pan gasket...oOUCH! What's that going for these days guys? I'd think twice the belts, or more. This is an 8 k car, at the most. If those things are not as good as they were advertised, than there is plenty more coming. As far as header pipe, not sure. Would it have to be removed to weld it? Ouch again. We're in the 7500.00 range. That's just my opinion, and i'm basing it on you not doing all of this yourself. Definitely not an 11k car. Ain't PPI's grand!

eclou

All bets are off until you open the hood, put it up on a lift and check under the skirt. There are some pretty gals out there who look great from 10 ft but are so f'ed up in the head and have been carriers of all sorts of physical problems and diseases as well.

If it all checks out ok, I would say that car is worth 10-11k.

baltik

Guy is advertising it again at 12k claiming all services performed... byer beware

ehall

"Guy is advertising it again at 12k claiming all services performed... byer beware"

If the above is true, and I have no reason to doubt it....RUN AWAY!!!

emwporsche

just a note:

I had to get a loan for my car ($7500)
for an 86 in PERFECT condition with 86K miles on it.
it was a very very good deal.

but I couldn't get the loan under dumb-*** kbb.
instead the bank also used NADA which happened to be far more realistic
search for yourself:
http://www.nadaguides.com/uv/selectc...Pr=1&wPg=2081&
http://www.kbb.com/kb/ki.dll/ke.kb.s...&&usedCars;slp
an 86 with 86000 miles on it in excellent condition in washington state: $8700
same exact specs but through kbb: $3950

kbb is bull****.

cheers