Piston coatings
03-17-2005, 07:59 AM
#1
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Piston coatings
A shot from Lindsey Racing thermal coat and side skirt coating and then one from Swains new PC9 and thermal gold coat.
The pistons with the LR coating are 100.5mm and the Swain coated are 101mm, 2.8L pistons. The Swain was about $50 more for the set. Both coatings turned out really nice; one is mine and other set are for jwl new 2.8 engine. Sorry about the size, thought detail was important.
The pistons with the LR coating are 100.5mm and the Swain coated are 101mm, 2.8L pistons. The Swain was about $50 more for the set. Both coatings turned out really nice; one is mine and other set are for jwl new 2.8 engine. Sorry about the size, thought detail was important.
03-17-2005, 11:51 AM
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Ski,
On the Tom C pistons, was the iron graphone coating removed, or just prepped to accept this coating.
Can Swain's PC9 be used to make an otherwise incompatible piston (e.g. JE) work in the Alusil bores or do you need the Mahle/Tom C coating under it? Is it a thermal barrier, an anti-gall coating, or both?
Sorry for all the questions, but I am finally ready to order pistons and don't want to be missing anything.
On the Tom C pistons, was the iron graphone coating removed, or just prepped to accept this coating.
Can Swain's PC9 be used to make an otherwise incompatible piston (e.g. JE) work in the Alusil bores or do you need the Mahle/Tom C coating under it? Is it a thermal barrier, an anti-gall coating, or both?
Sorry for all the questions, but I am finally ready to order pistons and don't want to be missing anything.
03-17-2005, 12:55 PM
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Tom, JWL and SKI are experimenting and taking the lead! I would wait to get their results... I must say, they are leading the way on this one, my fingers are crossed.
I think the PC-9 works as a barrier, so aftermarket Aluminum pistons can work with the Alusil..
I think the PC-9 works as a barrier, so aftermarket Aluminum pistons can work with the Alusil..
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03-17-2005, 01:04 PM
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[QUOTE=fast951]Tom, JWL and SKI are experimenting and taking the lead! I would wait to get their results... I must say, they are leading the way on this one, my fingers are crossed.
QUOTE]
Experimenting with the Tom C pistons, or with the coatings? My machinist was going to call Tom C with specs this week. If I use his pistons out of the box, no need to wait, right?
QUOTE]
Experimenting with the Tom C pistons, or with the coatings? My machinist was going to call Tom C with specs this week. If I use his pistons out of the box, no need to wait, right?
03-17-2005, 01:09 PM
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They are experimenting with new coatings. I believe Tom C. coating is working fine for them.. Again JWL and SKI have more info on this..
03-17-2005, 02:05 PM
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What is the durability of the anti-friction (skirt) coating, daily driving and occasional racing?
Some years ago I had pistons friction coated by HPC, but (for other reasons I) had to remove them after a few thousand miles and discovered that the coating was worn off. HPC now claims to have a much more durable coating, which I applied to the pistons in my white 951 maybe a thousand miles before it died. They are still in the car.
The main consumer for these coatings is the racing industry, which can tolerate rebuilding engines after only a few hundred miles and are looking for fractions of % improvements. I would like it to last maybe 100k miles.
Laust
Some years ago I had pistons friction coated by HPC, but (for other reasons I) had to remove them after a few thousand miles and discovered that the coating was worn off. HPC now claims to have a much more durable coating, which I applied to the pistons in my white 951 maybe a thousand miles before it died. They are still in the car.
The main consumer for these coatings is the racing industry, which can tolerate rebuilding engines after only a few hundred miles and are looking for fractions of % improvements. I would like it to last maybe 100k miles.
Laust
03-17-2005, 02:21 PM
#11
Race Car
Having used Arias for some custom pistons years ago (noone else would touch my request) I contacted them 6-8 months ago to inquire about making me a set of low compression turbo pistons for a 3.0 liter block. Their representative stated that they knew the details about the proprietary coating and that they could handle the job, no problem.
Bret, pop me an email when you get around to it, new computer, lost address book....
944t@bellsouth.net
Bret, pop me an email when you get around to it, new computer, lost address book....
944t@bellsouth.net
03-17-2005, 03:29 PM
#12
Race Car
I'm interested too.
I am investigating a set of what I believe to be Mahle 100.5mm pistons, but they are badly scuffed on the sides. I would imagine this means they need re-coating.
I am interested in the prep work and such done on these, since I may have them coated with PC9.
I am investigating a set of what I believe to be Mahle 100.5mm pistons, but they are badly scuffed on the sides. I would imagine this means they need re-coating.
I am interested in the prep work and such done on these, since I may have them coated with PC9.
03-17-2005, 04:29 PM
#14
I've Swain coated my 100.5 Mahle 2.8 liter pistons with their Gold Coat and
PC-9.
Things to note about Swain.
- You get them back in a nitrogen bag and they look darkish brown ( first pic in the thread)...and they will be "wet". They want you to install them ASAP to reduce the oxidation affect on their Gold Coat...by heating them up during combustion it finalizes the ceramic process by "baking" them. If you leave them in the air, you'll notice the piston will turn from darkish brown to yellow gold (like mine above).
- The PC-9 side coating is to reduce friction and should not be considered a thermal barrier (not like the Gold Coat).
-IMHO Mahle pistons have the correct thermo expansion properties to choose for our Nikasil blocks, unless you use steel sleeves..etc or want to run "real loose"
My motor has 600 miles and I'm about to take the head off to see what the pistons look like among other things.
-S
PC-9.
Things to note about Swain.
- You get them back in a nitrogen bag and they look darkish brown ( first pic in the thread)...and they will be "wet". They want you to install them ASAP to reduce the oxidation affect on their Gold Coat...by heating them up during combustion it finalizes the ceramic process by "baking" them. If you leave them in the air, you'll notice the piston will turn from darkish brown to yellow gold (like mine above).
- The PC-9 side coating is to reduce friction and should not be considered a thermal barrier (not like the Gold Coat).
-IMHO Mahle pistons have the correct thermo expansion properties to choose for our Nikasil blocks, unless you use steel sleeves..etc or want to run "real loose"
My motor has 600 miles and I'm about to take the head off to see what the pistons look like among other things.
-S
03-17-2005, 04:38 PM
#15
Burning Brakes
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Do you know what the coatings are made out of? My research has to do with thermal barrier coatings, and I saw that swain does zirconia (plasma sprayed probably, but it is white), but I have no idea what is up with the orange coating. Wierd.
Also I saw that they had a trademark symbol by the abreviation TBC on their website. I'm pretty sure there is no trademark on that, as it has been commonly used in research and industry for 20+ years and this is the first time I've ever seen it with the trademark symbol.
Also I saw that they had a trademark symbol by the abreviation TBC on their website. I'm pretty sure there is no trademark on that, as it has been commonly used in research and industry for 20+ years and this is the first time I've ever seen it with the trademark symbol.