Swedeboy

Point is - vou'll have to invest more time and/or money into this car if you want it to sell at a major premium.

mwc951

Contact Holbert's in Willow Grove........
maybe they'd buy it.

Matt H

Too bad this is SO far from that it might as well be a Yugo.

Compared to Newmann Holbert is a nobody.

Apples to skyscrapers comparison. It ISNT an RSR, is ISNT a 911, and it will never be even if you spent the mint it would take to make it nice.

2 assumptions:
1) no one would spend what it is going to take to make this car perfect and then take it on track, except vintage racing and
2) if you WERE going to spend the money, you would want it to be original, that is where the value is.

With a reasonable price on a car that appears to be in good shape and it not in boxes. This car is none of those things. So what we are saying is that someone is going to pay a fortune to own a car i n boxes that used to be owned by someone that maybe a few thousand people in the world are even aware of?

Kees has it right, to get anywhere within 15K dollars of the current asking price is probably going to cost about 15K dollars

Anyone who has done a full restoration on a 951 should know that making this car have value (the only way I see that is as a restored factory race car) is going to cost as much as raising the Titanic and frankly aside from the novelty of saying you own it there is nothing attractive about this car. Just to get a solid repaint on the car you are looking at at least 8K dollars if done by a resto shop that is worth a crap.
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porschehead

Will get the file out with dates and details in next few days. I have a constant chain of history/documents/photos including info from 1986 team manager of P.M.N.A.. A photo of the car by the loading dock at Porsche Motorsport North America the day it arrived from Germany in guards red prior to Rothmans scheme(See below-Note small Holbert Racing sign on the door of the
building). Copys of his dayplanner pages (about 15)from 1986 with references to the cars arrival, race prep, set up day at the track,The Mosport race, Selling the car to the Porsche dealer in S.C..
A partial computer printout of the 944s that came through Warrington, PA.(Porsche Motorsport Was at Al Holberts dealership in Warrington) next to my vin# reads " PAG Development car/ PMNA Mosport car.
Other document on Porsche Motorsport letterhead about the Rothmans paint scheme, color codes,and dimensions. Documents stating that this was the factory's development car for run of 6 Escort Endurance cars and that late in
the race season "Al Holbert managed to get this car from the factory".

Race photos from Mosport 24 hour Escort race and Mid Ohio 24 hour race.
Photos of the car being autocrossed in late 1980s still with red white and blue paint scheme,minus sponsers.

Copy of article in October 86 issue of SCCAs Sports Car magazine about
the Mosport 24 Hr. race. Mentions the #14 Rothmans car, drivers and results.
It D.N.F.d after a blown head gasket in the 8th hour with I think 200 + laps.
There was some speculation that there was some cheating going on with the boost preasure,(They say its only cheeting if you get caught).

I have a S.C. title.

Copy of bill of sale from Porsche dealerin S.C.(sold as street car) reads-
"Sold in as is condition with all faults all previouse use was as a race car"

Porsche Certificate of Authinticity with V.I.N., Engine and Transmission#s
(Numbers are correct and match)

And some more stuff I cant remember off the top of my head.

Hope to orginize and post this info soon.

GeorgeK

Matt,
My opinion is different.
I remember very clearly the time when people had a hard time unloading RSs for 10K (yes 10 thousand swiss francs), and a RSR was just an old racing car that could no longer win. Heck, one was bought in a shed in North Africa in the early 90's.

I think (hope?) that the Cup, being the cheapest entry into factory race cars, will gain value in the next 5 years.

porschehead

Any comments on the best spots to advertize the car?
I will probably put in Autoweek classifieds in next few weeks.
Do you guys know any vintage race magazines or web sites
I might advertize on ?

Thanks

Swedeboy

I think having a chat with Al Holbert to tell him you found his old car and that it's for sale might work. Racers often get sentimental when they grow older.

special tool

That would be very difficult, dude.

ed devinney

Al's probably not real interested in his old car right now, IIRC he's been dead a couple of years.

A friend of mine sold a very collectible 944 turbo S (1200 miles). In his case EBay got the best results for getting the word out.

Swedeboy

Whoops. Even with his LeMans history he's basically unknown on this side of the pond. I guess even if he were to be interested - it's going to be tough getting hold of him.

Just read his Motorsport Hall of Fame profile. Impressive track history with an impressive private life too - quite a tragic loss.

With his history you might want to try the ex-Holbert 962 racers - for them buying an older Turbo Cup car would be peanuts and an interesting compliment to their car.

Luis de Prat

OTOH he's pretty much a legend in U.S. Porsche history and the PCA.

That alone makes Holbert every bit as significant a pilot if not more than Paul Newman (as mentioned earlier by Matt H) specifically regarding Porsches. Newman is an actor and amateur pilot. Holbert was a pro Hall of Famer who made history for the Porsche marque in America.

I'd hazard a guess that alone is definitely going to be worth a premium to someone in the collector market when considering this car. The question becomes how big of a premium versus the cost of getting the car back to collector condition.

951carter

I would advertise it in Excellence with a picture of it in its former glory.

porschehead

No firm offers yet, but starting to get inquries on the car. Had 3 so far.
One from London, England. We'll see what happens??

sweanders

For that kind of money plus a few thousand dollar someone could buy my car from me as well. Any takers for the first Cup car ever?

Luis de Prat

How about waiting for the summer track season to pass, to see how well you do first.