KJM3SMG

well I bought an 86 for about $8500. It had a couple of PPIs done but after brining it here and it not passing emissions I had the whole car checked again.

Car looks great externally:



Here's the thread regarding the failed emissions: https://rennlist.com/forums/showthre...=177143&page=2

Took it to IMA and got the call back for work to be done:

They found a few things that could be passed on:

-brake rotors - it's ok (will need to be done)
pads are changed, rotors are worn but work
-oil pan gasket - big job, seeping, tried to seal a couple of times, gasket sealants
if i get oil spots or oil smoke, do it. Will cost $3000
-bearing noise from torque tube - ignore til time to do the clutch
-belts printing silkscreen, not brand new.. done recently
-belts and water pump - $1200-1600 to be done
other small stuff can be done during routine schedule service, comprehensive.

What needs and will be done:

-accessory drive belt,
-ignition wires
-retorque front wheel bearings
-fuel line, front to back of the car
-valve for turbo charger dumping boost when you switch
-retainer to hold battery down is not there
-fix exhaust leak between header and downpipe
-rear axle, swapped to even wear, but done 90% right, 10% wrong. Didn't swap the pair of shields in axle joints to prevent sone chips.
-other odds and ends

parts & labor $3600, need 3 days

Questions..

1. do you think the place where the PPIs were done were incompetent to NOT find these things, or is IMA just that good?
2. do you think that overall these issues are normal?
3. the price of the car + costs to get it back in normal shape $8500+$3600 = $12,100, acceptable? Will I expect such high priced items to pop up from time to time? Forgive me I'm new to the 951.

I do expect to do some of the work which were not listed above like change the locks, change the hood latches, other small items. Just kind of intimidating for an 18 year old, 130k mile sports car.

Jeremy Himsel

If the shop that didn't catch the leaky oil pan during the PPI then I would say they're not the best choice for the oil pan gasket. 3K for that job is really high. 1600 is the norm for that job but many guys have gotten it done much cheaper.

To be quite honest, if your even slightly mechanically inclined, I would say you can tackle everything yourself with the exception of the pan, pump, and belts. If you have a decent tool set and can dedicate a few hours reading then you can get those done as well.

Evan70

1st thing to realize when buying a 951, you WILL put way more money into it than you'll ever get back out of it. These cars have very high maintenance costs, especially if you take it to someone to get the work done. I've known quite a few owners that have 2 or 3 times what the car is worth invested in the car ($20K-$30K in a car that might be worth $10K).

First, do everything you can yourself. Plugs and wires are easy to do for even a novice (hint, the plug boots unscrew from the wires), as are the accessory belts and brakes (pads & rotors). At the very least buy a Haynes manual (it's really not that great, but it'll give you a basic walk through of how to do many things) and do everything you can yourself.

After that, check with your local PCA chapter to find the best 951 mechanic in your area. You may be out of luck and have only one Porsche mechanic, or you may have several. Check with the local club for who has the best rates and the best service. Also, when you do take the car in to a shop for service, buy the parts yourself. You will pay significantly less most of the time as many shops buy from the same places you will and just mark the price up when they resell them.

This is my second 951 (first was an 86), and both cost right at $2000 right off the bat to bring them up to an acceptable level. They still had things that needed to be done at that point, but both were driveable and reliable for street use. Unfortunately, I didn't do everything I could have on the first one and melted a piston on it's second track excursion (at which point it was wiser at the time to get rid of the car and take my losses than try to repair it). Therefore, I recommend a few things to you:
1) Get an A/F gauge! Whether it's a narrow band one like the one from Rennbay (what I've currently got), or a wideband one. Also, of course, pay attention to it. This could save you big $$$$.
2) Never, Ever skimp on maintenance. Even if you bring the car up to perfect condition, you should still budget a good $1,000-$2,000/year for maintenance. Some years you may not use it all, other years you may exceed that amount. But if you budget for it ahead of time, you won't be scrimping for it when something does break.

Now, having said all of this, I still think the 951 is one of the greatest car values on the planet. IF you keep the maintenance up on them, they are usually very reliable. They are also a real sports car and are a true "driver's" car.

9five1

I agree that a leaky oil pan should be pointed out in the PPI... You can look past the odds and ends, but that is a major thing to miss... In my opinion the oil pan is not the best job in the world, but it can be done in a weekend if you want to tackle it. There are a lot of local people to help.

~Eric

skene

Hey! Your car looks just like mine! Except with nicer rims and 70k less miles.
What did you think about IMA? I've heard a lot of good things about them and was thinking of having them do a once over of my car soon to see what I need to fix on it.

You should be able to do a lot of that yourself if you're mechanicaly inclined and have enough free time. I did the oil pan gasket a while back..which wasn't so much fun. It took me about 3 weeks to do, but I only put a couple hours in here and there so as Eric said, a solid weekend with help could finish it off.

KJM3SMG

hey Andrew, same color and pretty close.. we will have to all get together.. a small group of NoVA/MD/DC 951 club lol.

I am actually collecting info from those who would like to meet up sometime maybe next week or the week after.. email me if u want in at karl_garcia*** at *** hotmail D0T com.

As far as the car, they are working on it now.. glad it will be in normal shape after experts worked on it. That could be start from zero.

Honestly if I had known there were all these problems and would cost this much to fix up, I would not have bought the car at that price. There were just too many issues and the PPI that has been done is pathetic. But I didn't want to give up on it after hearing the monstrous repair bill.. I figure at a little over $12k, it's still a better deal than any car you can get at that price (except for other 951s lol).

Ski

You bought that car from a guy in Springfield AR?

KJM3SMG

I got it from Paul from Springdale, AR. It was PPI'd before according to him by Bud's (some local import shop). I asked for another PPI to be sure with compression check. The results came out ok.. so kinda pathetic the items found by IMA Motorsports during this week's Post Purchase Inspection here were not found at all by his shop.

:-(

jerome951

Karl,
That just goes to show you that who you get the PPI from is just as important as having it done.

Most shops rarely see a 944 so don't know exactly what to look for (leaky pan gasket, however, is unexcusable).

BTW, Ivan is REALLY particular about maintaining cars. He will sometimes suggest things that would bring the car back to as-new condition but may not be absolutely necessary (like he did on the Post-PI). Feel free to push back, especially if you are on a budget.

A quick story. When I first went to see Ivan several years ago (when he was renting space at another shop) about a slow cranking issue, he noticed the flywheel sensor bracket on the back of the intake manifold was not attached (missing bolt). I didn't know better, it wasn't causing any problems, and my old mechanic (not in the DC area) didn't correct it. Ivan went in and got a bolt to reattach it. That's when I knew he was the right mechanic for my car.

Oh, and don't walk in carrying parts you want Ivan to put on unless it's something really off the wall. He doesn't like it as he figures his markup on parts into his profit on each job. Plus, you'll lose the labor warranty that comes w/ the part should it fail.

Flight_951

Karl, if I were you I'd dispute the credit card charge for the lousy PPI. If Ivan has found a host of other problems, the PPI was incomplete and therefore invalid.

Waterguy

Did your shop suggest changing the rod bearings while doing the oil pan gasket? If not, you should have them done. $60 in parts while you are in there, about 1/2 hour labour, may save the engine. This should have been considered preventative maintenance on a 130k mile car at a good 944 shop.

9five1

I agree with waterguy's point, if you have the pan off, the rod bearings are easy.

~Eric

KJM3SMG

thanks for the input all..

skipping the oil pan thing as he says we can until i notice oil leak on driveway or during...

-oil pan gasket - big job, seeping, tried to seal a couple of times, gasket sealants
if i get oil spots or oil smoke, do it. Will cost $3000

Big expensive job that I actually wanna tackle myself with the help of pro/s... and then work on the rod bearings..

The PPI was done by the shop which I paypal'd in advance to the seller... so no credit card dispute options there.