86 951 failed VA emissions inspection today
12-28-2004, 04:41 PM
#16
Drifting
Hey Paul, I agree with what you said as well.
KJ, just a question:
Was the car cold when you had the test done? A cat and O2 sensor that are not up to temp will give poor readings? With the cold weather we've had, cats and sensors will cool down pretty quickly as the car is not running.
KJ, just a question:
Was the car cold when you had the test done? A cat and O2 sensor that are not up to temp will give poor readings? With the cold weather we've had, cats and sensors will cool down pretty quickly as the car is not running.
12-28-2004, 07:35 PM
#17
Racer
Thread Starter
well the car was sufficiently warmed up when the test was done coz it's been running during my wait and the drive over there (over 30 mins as I was running errands).
Anyway, the shop called and tried to diagnose the problem, even consulting with Porsche. They said it is probably the catalyctic converter ($2800?). They suggested I just take it to Porsche, they weren't convinced that was the problem.
What I'm doing is I'm taking it to my friend's shop to clean up the injectors, etc. quick service (which will probably need to be done anyway so at least I wont get charged coz my friend says he'll do it for free).
And I talked with Ivan at IMA. I mentioned that since I was interested in doing some work on the car for more power anyway, I was wondering if he could take a look at the car, get it to pass inspections, then proceed from there.
What do you all think? Unfortunately I am a total newbie and can't work on the car (I dont even have the tools yet). I didn't anticipate to do this much work this early (I just got the car). I did plan on a complete PPI at IMA and so I can get better ideas what it needs and proceed. Ivan said to bring the emissions results.
Sorry if I didn't make much sense I'm spurting out what I can remember and may not have organized the info. But after the pros are done getting it up to speed, I will be getting my hands dirty.
Wish me luck <gulp> :-)
Anyway, the shop called and tried to diagnose the problem, even consulting with Porsche. They said it is probably the catalyctic converter ($2800?). They suggested I just take it to Porsche, they weren't convinced that was the problem.
What I'm doing is I'm taking it to my friend's shop to clean up the injectors, etc. quick service (which will probably need to be done anyway so at least I wont get charged coz my friend says he'll do it for free).
And I talked with Ivan at IMA. I mentioned that since I was interested in doing some work on the car for more power anyway, I was wondering if he could take a look at the car, get it to pass inspections, then proceed from there.
What do you all think? Unfortunately I am a total newbie and can't work on the car (I dont even have the tools yet). I didn't anticipate to do this much work this early (I just got the car). I did plan on a complete PPI at IMA and so I can get better ideas what it needs and proceed. Ivan said to bring the emissions results.
Sorry if I didn't make much sense I'm spurting out what I can remember and may not have organized the info. But after the pros are done getting it up to speed, I will be getting my hands dirty.
Wish me luck <gulp> :-)
12-28-2004, 07:51 PM
#18
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Bruce -
Unless there is something pretty screwy, I would guess the catalytic in your car is burned out. Your readings are almost identical to mine when I tried to pass it without a cat. (and I had an excellent tune on a 4500 mile motor)
The high NOX levels are typical of overly hot exhaust. (common on vehicles with shaved heads or ignition that is too far retarded) Is your ignition up to snuff? What chips are you running? Any head work?
Unless there is something pretty screwy, I would guess the catalytic in your car is burned out. Your readings are almost identical to mine when I tried to pass it without a cat. (and I had an excellent tune on a 4500 mile motor)
The high NOX levels are typical of overly hot exhaust. (common on vehicles with shaved heads or ignition that is too far retarded) Is your ignition up to snuff? What chips are you running? Any head work?
Originally Posted by F18Rep
Ummm as a matter of fact, I do have this very same problem on my 951. It is running so good, I thought it might just squeak by with a new cat but wrong-o...
Did I hear complete-set-of-vacuum-hoses for $30? Do you have somewhere specific to suggest for these? Any other suggestions?...Bruce ;]
Did I hear complete-set-of-vacuum-hoses for $30? Do you have somewhere specific to suggest for these? Any other suggestions?...Bruce ;]
12-28-2004, 07:59 PM
#19
Brian, the car is running rich as can be noted by the high HC, high HC will, indeed kill a cat. The high NOx is due to the high HC. I.e. the car is not burning all the fuel (rich condition) the "left over" fule is being dumped in to the cat, which cannot convert all of the HC, therefore high NOx readings.
Emissions testing is pretty simple stuff. There are actually books published about it and believe it or not, if you read them you can almost always diagnose these problems. Since our cars have no EGR system, diagnosing is generally quite simple.
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Emissions testing is pretty simple stuff. There are actually books published about it and believe it or not, if you read them you can almost always diagnose these problems. Since our cars have no EGR system, diagnosing is generally quite simple.
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12-28-2004, 08:02 PM
#20
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Good move talking to Ivan. Simple fix or not, it'll be running better when leaves the shop. IMA worked a miracle on my car to fix all the crap Curry's Auto f-d up.
If it turns out you need a cat, let me know. Have a known good one off my car just sitting here and I'm heading out to Ashburn for New Years. Probably dropping my car off at IMA too if they're ready for it.
If it turns out you need a cat, let me know. Have a known good one off my car just sitting here and I'm heading out to Ashburn for New Years. Probably dropping my car off at IMA too if they're ready for it.
12-28-2004, 08:26 PM
#21
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KJ, if you tried to get an OEM Porsche cat the price could very well be $2000+. Fortunately, there are LOTS of aftermarket alternatives. A previous owner of my 951 had Midas Muffler weld a replacement cat into the pipe and the maintenance records show it cost him a total of about $300. It hasn't had much mileage on it for the last 4.5 years (test pipe has usually been in place) but the car only squeaks thru on NOX, so it may not be a great cat, but it has gotten me thru the VA inspections. HC and CO I pass with VERY low numbers, and the car is chipped.
You could get a full Speed Force Racing stainless steel exhaust system, with a hi-flow cat, for WAY less than what that inspection place you went to quoted you. But I'd go with the lowest cost alternative until after Ivan has had a chance to inspect your car. He may very well find some other higher priority maintenance that needs to get done before you go with a bling-bling exhaust system.
As I mentioned in my earlier response, you can get a 30 day temp registration iin the meantime to give yourself the opportunity to decide where you want to invest your money. As Mike said, Ivan will give you honest advice on what needs to get done.
You could get a full Speed Force Racing stainless steel exhaust system, with a hi-flow cat, for WAY less than what that inspection place you went to quoted you. But I'd go with the lowest cost alternative until after Ivan has had a chance to inspect your car. He may very well find some other higher priority maintenance that needs to get done before you go with a bling-bling exhaust system.
As I mentioned in my earlier response, you can get a 30 day temp registration iin the meantime to give yourself the opportunity to decide where you want to invest your money. As Mike said, Ivan will give you honest advice on what needs to get done.
12-28-2004, 08:41 PM
#22
Hey Karl, it's Paul...The guy you bought the '86 from. Man, I'm really sorry to hear you are having trouble with the emissions testing. I just wanted to let you know that I was completely unaware of any issue there. We do not have emission testing here in Arkansas, so as far as I know it has never failed (or passed) emissions. As you can tell, it runs great, so it just never came up. Again, I'm really sorry about that. Hopefully it won't be anything too serious. Anyway, please let me know how everything works out. I just didn't want you to think I sold you the car knowing there was any issue. I wish I'd thought about emissions testing before and I could have looked for a place to have it tested. I don't even know who does that sort of testing around here. I'm really sorry about that, man. I wish you the best on getting it all worked through. Other than that, are you happy with the car? If it's any consolation, the 911 I was going to buy sold the day before I was going to buy it, so I'm without a Porsche right now.
By the way, the injectors should not be the problem, I just had all 4 replaced as well as the leads going in to them.
By the way, the injectors should not be the problem, I just had all 4 replaced as well as the leads going in to them.
Last edited by Oilslick964; 12-28-2004 at 09:05 PM.
12-28-2004, 10:29 PM
#23
Racer
Thread Starter
If it's any consolation, the 911 I was going to buy sold the day before I was going to buy it, so I'm without a Porsche right now.
Hey I'm sorry the 911 you want sold.. despite what's going on I gave you the benefit of the doubt that's why I didn't call you about it. So far I like the car. This is my first "old" car.. so I still have to get used to the smell or lack of features I'm used to. But I did expect this. The car shows great.. exterior is wonderful after a wash.. I already got compliments at the gas station from many people: "how do you keep that car so nice?" I plan on upgrading the suspension and feel.. there are a lot of weird noises on the car, not sure if it's normal but it does run well. Being no mechanic, I don't know what they are.. but I am very happy with the car and look at it as a project. Thanks Paul for a good transaction.. my dad's friend who picked it up for me said you were great, even letting him have a battery charger to make sure he didn't get stranded. The window lock missing, and other minor stuff I will get worked on.. this is going to be a fun restoration for a newbie. :-)
If it turns out you need a cat, let me know. Have a known good one off my car just sitting here and I'm heading out to Ashburn for New Years. Probably dropping my car off at IMA too if they're ready for it.
Mike thanks for the offer. I will find out this week if it is indeed the cats when Ivan gets a look at it.
Renn, good point with getting something cheaper aftermarket.. the Ivan and IMA experience will resolve this issue soon hopefully.
Everyone thanks for the tips so far. BTW, I finally got a chance to scan the Emissions Results.. so the experts here can do a guess :-)
Results (ignore the incorrect label that said it was a 911 carrera lol):
Form to fill out to whoever fixes the problem:
Note also that it specifies what the law says about DEQ Emissions etc. So I do need it done properly..
Hey I'm sorry the 911 you want sold.. despite what's going on I gave you the benefit of the doubt that's why I didn't call you about it. So far I like the car. This is my first "old" car.. so I still have to get used to the smell or lack of features I'm used to. But I did expect this. The car shows great.. exterior is wonderful after a wash.. I already got compliments at the gas station from many people: "how do you keep that car so nice?" I plan on upgrading the suspension and feel.. there are a lot of weird noises on the car, not sure if it's normal but it does run well. Being no mechanic, I don't know what they are.. but I am very happy with the car and look at it as a project. Thanks Paul for a good transaction.. my dad's friend who picked it up for me said you were great, even letting him have a battery charger to make sure he didn't get stranded. The window lock missing, and other minor stuff I will get worked on.. this is going to be a fun restoration for a newbie. :-)
If it turns out you need a cat, let me know. Have a known good one off my car just sitting here and I'm heading out to Ashburn for New Years. Probably dropping my car off at IMA too if they're ready for it.
Mike thanks for the offer. I will find out this week if it is indeed the cats when Ivan gets a look at it.
Renn, good point with getting something cheaper aftermarket.. the Ivan and IMA experience will resolve this issue soon hopefully.
Everyone thanks for the tips so far. BTW, I finally got a chance to scan the Emissions Results.. so the experts here can do a guess :-)
Results (ignore the incorrect label that said it was a 911 carrera lol):
Form to fill out to whoever fixes the problem:
Note also that it specifies what the law says about DEQ Emissions etc. So I do need it done properly..
Last edited by KJM3SMG; 12-28-2004 at 11:10 PM.
12-28-2004, 10:36 PM
#24
Karl,
Glad to hear you like the car! Yeah, Jerry seemed like a great guy. He was very upbeat, even though he was missing Christmas! As far as the car jumper, I got a new one for Christmas so now we both have one. Again, I'm really sorry about the emissions issues. Have fun with the car and I hope you'll make a real monster out of it!
Glad to hear you like the car! Yeah, Jerry seemed like a great guy. He was very upbeat, even though he was missing Christmas! As far as the car jumper, I got a new one for Christmas so now we both have one. Again, I'm really sorry about the emissions issues. Have fun with the car and I hope you'll make a real monster out of it!
12-28-2004, 11:26 PM
#25
Racer
Thread Starter
excuse the bad scan magnification but here's the detail:
15 MPH:
HC ppm: 140 limit, mine is 160 FAIL
CO %: .79 limit, mine is .50 FAIL
NO ppm: 1097, mine is 1476 FAIL
25 MPH:
135/163 FAIL
.83/.73 PASS
999/2003 FAIL
15 MPH:
HC ppm: 140 limit, mine is 160 FAIL
CO %: .79 limit, mine is .50 FAIL
NO ppm: 1097, mine is 1476 FAIL
25 MPH:
135/163 FAIL
.83/.73 PASS
999/2003 FAIL
