MAF or MAP
01-03-2005, 06:31 AM
#48
Instructor
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My experience is, that whatever type of bypass valveI use, I'll always end with sometimes very rich conditions during shifts with a MAF sensor. That causes the catalytic converter to overheat and it may be damaged. The problem is the backflow through the MAF when the valve opens. With the flap-style AFM, that is mechanically blocked.
Same if you use an open or atmospheric bypass valve with either a AFM or MAF. These sensors a designed like gates and you should not loose any measured air after the sensor. If you blow off the air through a BOV, you get rich conditions and - beautiful flames at the end... ;-)
The MAP system calculates the actual airflow from rpm, manifold pressure and engines volume. There is no need to keep the air and it can be blown anywhere.
Another advantage of a MAP system is the flexibility of the system design. You can easily hide the small MAP sensor somewhere and remove the flap out of the AFM to keep a stock look.
Same if you use an open or atmospheric bypass valve with either a AFM or MAF. These sensors a designed like gates and you should not loose any measured air after the sensor. If you blow off the air through a BOV, you get rich conditions and - beautiful flames at the end... ;-)
The MAP system calculates the actual airflow from rpm, manifold pressure and engines volume. There is no need to keep the air and it can be blown anywhere.
Another advantage of a MAP system is the flexibility of the system design. You can easily hide the small MAP sensor somewhere and remove the flap out of the AFM to keep a stock look.
01-03-2005, 09:08 AM
#49
Burning Brakes
I like flames (of a reasonable size 
) and do not have a cat (not required on cars manufactured before 93 in the UK) so I am very interested in what you have done. IIRC you are using a bosch HFM5 (easily available) with a relatively simple (cheap) a to d convertor. If this replicates the AFM signal accurately as the graphs seem to predict, it looks like a nice economic way for me (and others in the UK) to dump my barn door, and improve airflow. Are you planning on selling a kit or a set of drawings and data?
Tony
) and do not have a cat (not required on cars manufactured before 93 in the UK) so I am very interested in what you have done. IIRC you are using a bosch HFM5 (easily available) with a relatively simple (cheap) a to d convertor. If this replicates the AFM signal accurately as the graphs seem to predict, it looks like a nice economic way for me (and others in the UK) to dump my barn door, and improve airflow. Are you planning on selling a kit or a set of drawings and data?Tony
01-03-2005, 10:18 AM
#50
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Originally Posted by NZ951
That is BS about Link support. Performance Developemnts suport Link very well, as does Link Electro Systems in NZ. The stumbling is a tuning issue, not product. Link in NZ have spent MANY ours on the phone and personally with me. Heck, one of the guys there even hekped me tune it.
May I have their phone number?
01-03-2005, 11:09 AM
#51
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@uk952:
If you don't need to drive with a cat, you don't have to worry about the rich conditions. You may remember this thread where I described the use of a HFM5 MAF in a racecar project.
We plan to produce a few sets of the S2 kit - the costs are estimated to be around 500€. It is a plug&play kit that replaces the standard AFM and connects without modifications. You have to add a 12V line of course.
If you don't need to drive with a cat, you don't have to worry about the rich conditions. You may remember this thread where I described the use of a HFM5 MAF in a racecar project.
We plan to produce a few sets of the S2 kit - the costs are estimated to be around 500€. It is a plug&play kit that replaces the standard AFM and connects without modifications. You have to add a 12V line of course.
01-03-2005, 03:34 PM
#53
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Map maf the same old story. What it comes down to is the ability of the person who buys the system to operate it. Ive had customers in the past install and tune both maop and maf kits with ease because they understand the workings of the engine and turbo combined with some knowlage of tuning. THEN I have had customers(in the past) who couldnt even understand how to wire the system in and should have not even began to try and tune it. So I say to you If you can tune it buy it if you cant finda reputable shop and have them install and tune it. As far as witch one is better map or maf personally id say map. Its safer wont leave you stranded if you pop a vacuum line and is far better when expanding with new mods. Just my two cents and ow ya HAPPY NEW YEAR ALL.
01-03-2005, 05:14 PM
#55
Race Director
Originally Posted by ewainwright
May I have their phone number?
www.link-electro.co.nz
01-04-2005, 03:55 PM
#56
Instructor
Thread Starter
Thank's everybody for the input
And a very happy new year!
kind regards
P.S.: Yes Tom, I know & I hope you will soon announce..
And a very happy new year!
kind regards
P.S.: Yes Tom, I know & I hope you will soon announce..
Last edited by turbinek; 01-04-2005 at 04:20 PM.
01-05-2005, 09:51 AM
#57
Burning Brakes
Originally Posted by Transaxle
@uk952:
If you don't need to drive with a cat, you don't have to worry about the rich conditions. You may remember this thread where I described the use of a HFM5 MAF in a racecar project.
We plan to produce a few sets of the S2 kit - the costs are estimated to be around 500€. It is a plug&play kit that replaces the standard AFM and connects without modifications. You have to add a 12V line of course.
If you don't need to drive with a cat, you don't have to worry about the rich conditions. You may remember this thread where I described the use of a HFM5 MAF in a racecar project.
We plan to produce a few sets of the S2 kit - the costs are estimated to be around 500€. It is a plug&play kit that replaces the standard AFM and connects without modifications. You have to add a 12V line of course.
I was also wondering if you would just do the electronics, HFM5's should be available from damaged vehicles at favourable prices so with a bit of plumbing - job done
I see you are working on MAP for the 951 but before I got back to this thread, I also thought of another couple of options, would a simple butterfly (in the style of throttle valve) lightly sprung or wieghted to close between the MAF and the wastegate dump reduce the rich issue without restricting airflow much (assuming it swung open horizontal during throttle open conditions).
Cheers
Tony
01-07-2005, 02:49 PM
#60
Burning Brakes
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Andrew,
That is virtually true, except SFR do not advise a 3bar pressure regulator and say customised chips do not really make that much difference. This flies in the face of what Danno states regarding burning customised chips that are a close match requiring less fine tuning.
Just wondered if anybody was using a SFR setup
That is virtually true, except SFR do not advise a 3bar pressure regulator and say customised chips do not really make that much difference. This flies in the face of what Danno states regarding burning customised chips that are a close match requiring less fine tuning.
Just wondered if anybody was using a SFR setup