Kit_Chris

Chris, have you delivered GTP brakes to 911 owners? If we were to organize a group buy for GTP 951 brakes, how many orders would you need to develop the missing components?

Thanks,

Regards,
Chris

ehall

Chris,

Good luck with the new venture. It's great that someone picked up the reins.It's good that this old thread came back. A lot of poeple were excited about the possible light kits, as well as the brakes. If you can deliver the light kit for what GT racings sells it for, you'd get a decent number of orders. Theirs is notorious for really bad fitment etc. Anyway, again good luck. Glad you popped in to give us the low down. E

951_RS

Honestly, I would love some brakes that out perform BR's and can fit on my 16's...
People in america especially normally think bigger is better, but there is most definitely a point you can go too big, and the brakes need to be matched to your car, for weight mostly.
Anyone saying that you don't save much weight is crazy, because you'll save weight just from keeping 16's on instead of 17's or even 18's.... Plus it was already mentioned you save 18 lbs per wheel from br's. That is a considerable amount of weight...

I am very interested in the gtr kit and if I can get my hands on a pair I most definitely would =]

Kit_Chris

I am personally very skeptical about the 18lbs per wheel weight saving, sounds enormous for the mass of parts swapped. Even at 5lbs per wheel the weight saving would be worth the purchase price, and as mentioned the possibility of running lighter 16'' wheels on the track, this would dramatically improve handling!

Regards,
Chris

Crazy Eddie

I wish someone could invent a rotor that is about half the weight of our stock s4 ( TS ) brakes
That would be a GOD send !!
This way one could keep a really good brake and at the same time lighten up the corners of unsprung weight
SORRY for the OT
Regards
Ed

pole position

www.vehiclecraft.com has four pound lighter front rotors for the 951S , not cheap but they are also floating.

Crazy Eddie

Thanks Pole
I didnt see the item singled out on the web site but I assume its the roter with the black hat
That's prob where the weight savings is ? Its prob aluminum ??
Regards
Ed

Crazy Eddie

Found it
Thanks
Ed
2 rotors, 2 aluminum 2024 hats, hardware, assembled ready to bolt on
VCI-6610 12.0"x1.25" non floating gas slotted (will replace stock Turbo "S" rotor - 4 lbs lighter than stock) $910 pr

Your right not cheap
I wonder how much the stock one weighs ?

951_RS

I agree with you because thats an enormous weight savings... That's like having no rims on the car at all lol. Minus it being rotational weight, but still
I'd take them for 5 lb weight savings just as easily, not to mention the weight savings of keeping my 16's =]

pole position

The small increase in unsprung weight if there is any depending of the tire of choice and the variety of 17/18 " wheels with similar or less weight than the 16" Fuchs is easily offset by the stiffer sidewall etc plus the additional better brake cooling with 17/18 " .
Remember , the ultimate evolution of the 924/944/951/968 was the 968TS which came with 18".

Kit_Chris

I couldn't disagree more. You've clearly never driven 16'' wheels with race compounds, they're just as stiff as any other size, it's a common myth thinking that only larger wheels will provide better handling, 18'' wheels are certainly more glorious looking, but low profile isn't the only way to achieve tire wall stiffness. Look at race cars, including F1s, wheels are small, tires big.

And we're not talking about "small increase in unrpsung weight", with heavy Big Reds and 18'' wheels, you are looking at a minimum of 5-10lbs per wheel compared to standard Fuchs (probably the best you can get for the track, light and very strong). As for cooling, proper ventilated rotors with external cooling vents, quality pads and regular fluid flushes will give you very good performance, and a good quick reacting suspension will get you faster times than a comparatively better cooling big red brake setup.

Only the 968TS came with 18'' wheels, all others had 16'' (including the Cup 951S, albeit with magnesium wheels which are very, very hard to find), and I would argue Porsche went with the 18'' speedlines for the 968TS because larger wheels were and still are a must for all sports cars, and at the price they were asking for the 968TS fitting smaller, more effective wheels would have been a marketing mistake. Just my .02$

Regards,
Chris

streckfu's

Outside of F1, Cart, or IRL, why are all manufacturers racing in GT, GT2, GT1, Touring, etc. using 17"+ wheels? If there is such an advantage in racing applications, why don't they use the smaller tires on the track?

I have no doubt that racing tires on 16"s arevery good, but theremust be a reason every one using bigger wheels in competition.

Kit_Chris

..because it'd look silly?! Seriously, compared to today's production sports cars, which have ever lower profile tires with wheel diameters going up by the inch every few years, GT cars don't exactly have low profile tires, of course open wheel racers are an extreme example but illustrate quite well that high profile, stiff tires perform better because they optimize the suspension's reaction time through minimal overhang weight, it's also the highest level motorsport. GT cars are based on production cars, fitting them with high profile tires on skinny wheels would look very funny indeed.. at this competitive level however, extremely lightweight wheels are affordable, whatever the size.

I'm a strong believer in the "less is more" approach. More engine and braking power will improve on-track performance, but a good suspension is ultimately the best way to increase speed, and I think going larger wheels/bigger brakes is not a good compromise, both from a performance and cost point of view. I'm always amazed to see that some of the fastest cars around a track are stock, sharp 914-6s, it says much.

This is why I am very interested in alternative brake updates, which would weigh less and allow the use of smaller, lighter wheels.

OK Chris, there's my sales pitch all done up for you! When are these 951 GTP brakes ready???

Regards,
Chris

pole position

If you use F1 as a comparison example to the 951 then you live in another galaxy . Do you honestly think American Le mans , Lemans and so on use bigger wheels just for looks ? Technology , believe it or not , goes forward not backward or are you still believing in drum brakes ?

RK951

whats the weight of a 993TT rotor and caliper compared to the stock 951 (late model)?