951 GTP Kits & More!!!
12-19-2004, 05:03 AM
#46
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Originally Posted by pole position
If I remember correctly , Brembo bought AP Racing a few years ago.
12-21-2004, 12:31 PM
#47
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Brake torque force?
Paul968 wrote, "As far as the GTP-LW kits….. The length or height of a caliper is not what generates brake torque; it is the width and structural rigidity of the Caliper! Side by side the BR is larger in ever way…. other than width!"
Paul968, not sure what you are using as the definition of brake torque, but in asking the same question to Steve Ruiz at Stoptech and John Concialdi at AEM who are both mechanical engineers designing their company's respective kits, I was told that "brake torque" is a function of the moment arm defined by the distance between the center of the hub and extending out to the top edge of the pad.
Good luck on your group buy. It's probably a very fair price considering the hardware included. Plus, if you are able to deal with Brembo directly and NOT through Race Technologies, you've cut out another profit margin layer to pass along to the Rennlist.
Greg W
Paul968, not sure what you are using as the definition of brake torque, but in asking the same question to Steve Ruiz at Stoptech and John Concialdi at AEM who are both mechanical engineers designing their company's respective kits, I was told that "brake torque" is a function of the moment arm defined by the distance between the center of the hub and extending out to the top edge of the pad.
Good luck on your group buy. It's probably a very fair price considering the hardware included. Plus, if you are able to deal with Brembo directly and NOT through Race Technologies, you've cut out another profit margin layer to pass along to the Rennlist.
Greg W
12-21-2004, 01:00 PM
#48
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Yes GWTurboS,
This brings up another question. There's lots of guys out there running
17 & 18 inch wheels. Would it not be as good to fit bigger rotors
instead. What's the point of having a big caliper if the rotors cannot
dispel the heat build up by the increase in coefficient of friction of the
bigger brake pads.
This brings up another question. There's lots of guys out there running
17 & 18 inch wheels. Would it not be as good to fit bigger rotors
instead. What's the point of having a big caliper if the rotors cannot
dispel the heat build up by the increase in coefficient of friction of the
bigger brake pads.
12-21-2004, 02:05 PM
#49
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GWTurboS,
Correct..... the arm and the amount of levering force it can exert is related to the width and structural rigidity of the caliper.
This information is direct from Brembo's design and build technicians........ I am sure there are pages of technical info explaining the inner workings and build specs of these kits, but for obvious reason Brembo will not be publishing these.
Bottom line.... The new GTP-LW kit offers 13% more braking capability then the Big Red Kits.
All of the benefit are highlighted on the comparison sheet I posted.... this information is from Brembo!
Also the Big Reds are no more....... the GTP kits are the replacement kits.
J Chen
You have to get away from this idea bigger is better???? Bigger is basically heavier and more unsprung weight! The heavier the car, the more stopping power is needed to slow the car and the more heat is generated in the brake system!
Have you seen the size of a Formula One brake system??? Looks awfully like the GTP kits! Short in height and length, with a very thick caliper and the rotors are also not big in height.... just thick!
All that matters is braking torque and the ability to consistently maintain the effectiveness thru heat management.
Heat management is done thru ventilation, the materials used and the brake compounds...........and yes, also the size of the rotor. But if you notice the rotors are the same size as the Big Red Kits. However, because of the new materials being used in the GTP rotors, there is a reduction in weight and it offers better heat dissipation.
Also the actual design of the caliper helps heat reduction....... and the light-weight billet aluminum hat that both saves additional weight, also shields the hub from a large portion of the intense heat that builds in the rotor in performance braking situations.
Remember we are talking about 20 years worth of technology advancements..... isn't everything getting smaller and more powerful??? Same rules apply in brakes!
Regards,
Paul R
Correct..... the arm and the amount of levering force it can exert is related to the width and structural rigidity of the caliper.
This information is direct from Brembo's design and build technicians........ I am sure there are pages of technical info explaining the inner workings and build specs of these kits, but for obvious reason Brembo will not be publishing these.
Bottom line.... The new GTP-LW kit offers 13% more braking capability then the Big Red Kits.
All of the benefit are highlighted on the comparison sheet I posted.... this information is from Brembo!
Also the Big Reds are no more....... the GTP kits are the replacement kits.
J Chen
You have to get away from this idea bigger is better???? Bigger is basically heavier and more unsprung weight! The heavier the car, the more stopping power is needed to slow the car and the more heat is generated in the brake system!
Have you seen the size of a Formula One brake system??? Looks awfully like the GTP kits! Short in height and length, with a very thick caliper and the rotors are also not big in height.... just thick!
All that matters is braking torque and the ability to consistently maintain the effectiveness thru heat management.
Heat management is done thru ventilation, the materials used and the brake compounds...........and yes, also the size of the rotor. But if you notice the rotors are the same size as the Big Red Kits. However, because of the new materials being used in the GTP rotors, there is a reduction in weight and it offers better heat dissipation.
Also the actual design of the caliper helps heat reduction....... and the light-weight billet aluminum hat that both saves additional weight, also shields the hub from a large portion of the intense heat that builds in the rotor in performance braking situations.
Remember we are talking about 20 years worth of technology advancements..... isn't everything getting smaller and more powerful??? Same rules apply in brakes!
Regards,
Paul R
12-21-2004, 06:27 PM
#50
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Originally Posted by Paul968
Have you seen the size of a Formula One brake system??? Looks awfully like the GTP kits! Short in height and length, with a very thick caliper and the rotors are also not big in height.... just thick!
Regards,
Paul R
Nice product I just wish I had £1000 to spend on brakes right now. As it is a set of EBC Redstuff pads will have to suffice.
12-21-2004, 08:53 PM
#51
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Hi Paul968,
Increase in rotor diameter also increases brake torque.
Additional weight of the bigger rotors would be offset
by the used of billet hat which becomes a none issue
when compared to OEM rotors.
It is a very nice product. I'm sure it will perform as
advertise. But for street use, there are other options
available. Oh & I agree with Slim, F1's brake system
comparison is totally irrelevant.
Increase in rotor diameter also increases brake torque.
Additional weight of the bigger rotors would be offset
by the used of billet hat which becomes a none issue
when compared to OEM rotors.
It is a very nice product. I'm sure it will perform as
advertise. But for street use, there are other options
available. Oh & I agree with Slim, F1's brake system
comparison is totally irrelevant.
12-22-2004, 12:27 AM
#53
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Big Red's flex and are not as stiff as Monoblocks and that is the reason Porsche dropped them in 98. Is the average driver going to notice a difference ? I do not know but if you want current technology GTP's or Monoblocks ( there are almost the same as Porsche develped them with Brembo)
are the way to go. The other alternatives are Alcon's ( big $$$ , in use by Brabus ) and Stoptech's which are a improved BR design with their "caliper bridge" to combat flex plus you can use Porsche pads in them.
are the way to go. The other alternatives are Alcon's ( big $$$ , in use by Brabus ) and Stoptech's which are a improved BR design with their "caliper bridge" to combat flex plus you can use Porsche pads in them.
12-22-2004, 02:49 PM
#55
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Folks..... lets not get to involved into my F1 reference point!
The MISSED point I was trying to make was that technology has made things smaller..... I KNOW these are no F1 brakes but the reference I was trying to make here was in the size and modern day design.
Something I noticed, being an Englishman myself, is all of you who piped up about F1 are from the UK!
I guess us Brits take our F1 seriously!
Anyways... just want to make sure you did not think I was implying these are F1 brakes! I was merely using F1 as a size comparison!
Happy Holidays to all,
Best Regards,
Paul R
The MISSED point I was trying to make was that technology has made things smaller..... I KNOW these are no F1 brakes but the reference I was trying to make here was in the size and modern day design.
Something I noticed, being an Englishman myself, is all of you who piped up about F1 are from the UK!
I guess us Brits take our F1 seriously!
Anyways... just want to make sure you did not think I was implying these are F1 brakes! I was merely using F1 as a size comparison!
Happy Holidays to all,
Best Regards,
Paul R
10-27-2005, 12:20 PM
#57
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if you click on Powerwerks web site link, you'll find that access is forbidden , and something to the effect of don't try again. lol I won't. These guys came around promising lots of new stuff after Sebring. Who knows but no breath holding.
10-27-2005, 12:56 PM
#58
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Chris,
You should post a list of what you have to clear out if you havn't already elsewhere, like the full Guru MAp kit you had at the track. I was the guy who came over looking for the expansion tank cap you had for sale that you had to put into service yourself when the coolant starting spilling out of your car. I may have jumped on the MAP kit if I had the extra funds. Is that picture on the NCR site of the car in the pit with the smoke coming out from under the hood you?
John
You should post a list of what you have to clear out if you havn't already elsewhere, like the full Guru MAp kit you had at the track. I was the guy who came over looking for the expansion tank cap you had for sale that you had to put into service yourself when the coolant starting spilling out of your car. I may have jumped on the MAP kit if I had the extra funds. Is that picture on the NCR site of the car in the pit with the smoke coming out from under the hood you?
John
