toddk911

What has to be done to get the Tial models to fit?

SamGrant951

buy an adapter, or have it welded in place by a muffler shop...

PCinDC

I also removed the bracket that mounts the OEM wastegate to the torque tube. I don't think its necessary but it definitely helps, giving another inch or so of space to work.

hosrom_951

What i understood is that cars with 1-piece x-over pipes need some cutting in order to fit the adapter plates (SFR sells them along with the Tial). Later cars with 2-piece x-pipes need just the adapters(?)

As for removing the OEM brackets, there was several posts/discussions on the side effects of not using this. Some ended with the Tial hanging loose or something.........do a search on this

Alpine951

I called Turbo Tim at Speed Force a few weeks ago about this. My car is an 86 with a one piece cross over. Tim said that there was no cutting of the exhaust components required with his adaptors. The only mod is that some grinding has to be done to the torque tube for clearance of one of the ports on the WG. He also said they can put a smaller size port on the WG to help with the clearance. I have been told by other suppliers that for Tials sold by them some cutting and rewelding has to be done for a one piece crossover.

hosrom_951

Alpine: I was also told that the earlier models would need cutting, but not from Tial suppliers, but here on rennlist (one was a Tial supplier, no names now ), note the first few words on my previous post

PCinDC

First off the original poster has an 87 - he won't have a one peice crossover pipe.

Secondly - I had a one peice crossover pipe on my car when I purchased the Tial 38mm. The wastegate flange is in the same place and should work with the adaptors that SFR or MySwiss sell. THe thing is with the early crossover, if you ever need or want to remove the wastegate, you will have to drop the crossover pipe from the car. Thats a PITA and I would be pretty upset if I had to do that just to service my wastegate.

You can modify an early crossover to the two peice style, I opted to purchase a used 2 peice crossover.

As far as the 'tial hanging loose or something' I can't really see how thats possible provided everything is torqued correctly.
That bracket mounts to the torque tube to provide additional support for the heavy stock crossover/wastegate/exhaust. The tial doesn't weigh as much and again, provided everything is torqued correctly the exhaust should be supported just fine. That said, I also have an aftermarket exhaust that weighs a lot less than the factory system, and I might be a little more hesitant to remove the torque tube bracket if the full weight of the stock system needs to be supported.

Hosrom, what type of wastegate did you install on your car?

Edit: the two peice pipe was actually given to me by a fellow Rennlister and all round good guy. Gotta love Rennlist!

hosrom_951

944 Fanatic: As with the previous posts regarding misleading/full of BS, i used the terms "what i understood' and "i was told" befor anything in order to be accurate and to avoid misleading information here.

Regarding the cutting and welding and hanging loose, again as mentioned above. Previous topics and searches such as:

https://rennlist.com/forums/showthre...highlight=Tial
(Tim from SFR was in this one)

https://rennlist.com/forums/showthre...highlight=Tial (regarding the WG hanger)

https://rennlist.com/forums/showthre...highlight=Tial (regarding cutting)

There was also a nice post regarding a gentleman in the UK (and others) regarding the Tial getting loose, but couldn't find that on the search, but it was posted here a while back. Also as mentioned above (and in the searches) that SFR's Tial Adapters doesn't need cutting but some minor grinding to fit nicely.

Jake951

Actually the Tial 38mm with adapter plates and the factory stock WG's are very nearly the same weight. I've had both on the scale, and as I recall they are both around 6.5 lbs. There was a thread here recently about cracked exhaust pipes that was allegedly attributed to the lack of the support bracket on the WG. However, in my car I found it impossible to mount the Tial with the bracket in place so it had to be removed. However, the Tial definitely isn't loose when mounted this way. In my car it's wedged in there VERY tightly.

PCinDC

Not trying to get into a flame war Hosrom, I posted my own personal experience with the unit and my install. You posted a few links to some things other people have said or heard about them.

In one of the threads you link, a user (pk951) is quoted as saying " i have been running my tial wg for three years now with no hanger not one problem."

Exactly my point. These threads also indicate a need to retorque the bolts holding the Tial on after a few heat cycles. I would think this is good practice on any bolt in the exhaust system.

Also, with the bracket out of the equation, I can't see why you would need to grind the torque tube. I could be wrong, just speaking from my personal experience with this install on my own car. YMMV

hosrom_951

944 Fanatic: Hey, no flames here, that is also why i mentioned SOME eneded with problems

And that link regarding running the WG for years w/o problems was again to show that some people also have no issues........just showing both sides here that is all.

BTW, regading the cutting, i do remember MySwiss informing me that it is required on the 86 car during a PM conversation. If he reads this, he may even chip in . Not to start comparing vendors here, but are the adapters supplied from MySwiss differ from that of SFR (as in size/dimentions)? PLEASE keep this part relevant, i don't want to be responsible for any thrashing of vendors or comparisons (we had that a LOT in the past couple of days), just informative!

PCinDC

Well good, we're all 951 lovers here, we should be able to cohabitate peacefully.

Regarding your BTW - I assume you mean the early crossover? Because again, I have an 86 and didn't have to cut anything, but then again I updated the crossover.

A side note - not all 1986 cars will have the one peice crossover. This was updated when the exhaust header recall was performed and you can be fairly certain that if your car has the later style headers (with the expansion joints) that you also have the 2 peice crossover.

hosrom_951

Fanatic: Yes i do mean the early x-over (mine is), do you have a pic regarding the header update? i believe that recall was done on my car, but not the x-over (just one massive annoying exhaust pipe).

SamGrant951

I have a one piece crossover. 35mm HP WG w/ Tims adapter plates. It required NO cutting. I used a small brass 90 elbow w/ NPT fitting on the top port. Was it super easy? Nah, it took time lining it up and tighting 1 bolt at a time as the planes didnt seem to be the same. Im sure after a few heat cycles it wasnt stressed anymore, retightened bolts and its been fine for over 2 years w/o any type of bracket. YMMV!

MySwiss

Guys The key here is to first identify if you have 1 or 2 piece cross over pipe

If you do have the 2 piece cross over pipe, then our Tial will bolt right on with our machined adapter plates (no welding required)

As some of you have mentioned, it is recommended to retorque the bolts after a few heat cycles, cause the hardware tends to get loose.

If you do have the 1 piece cross over, you might be able to grind ,shave, cut or weld( whatever you prefer or require)and fit the Tial with our adapter plates, but I always caution my customers first. This dosen't mean that you will need to these mods on the 86, but it could become necessary, depending on a bunch of factors that vary from car to car. The main issue with the 1 piece cross over pipe , is that it dosen't leave as much room as the 2 piece around the torque tube. So if your engine mounts are new or old, you won't get the same clearence.

Finaly, I'm not saying it can't happen, but I have run two 951 with Tials, for over 3 years on the track, and I never had a cross over crack because the retaining braket wasen't there. Once it's secured properly between the cross over and the dump tube...it's not going anywhere....

Put the Tial in and enjoy the boost.....