Upper torque limit for standard block
11-23-2004, 08:18 PM
#61
Three Wheelin'
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Posts: 1,596
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Chris White
I guess I just don’t get it.
I have run into several folks that are trying to get the ‘max’ out of a K26/6, some to the point of spending well over $5k in engine management and other mods (I am not talking about the original poster). It just doesn’t make sense to me, why not just get the right turbo for the job? I am not trying to be a pain here….really, I just don’t get the concept.
I have run into several folks that are trying to get the ‘max’ out of a K26/6, some to the point of spending well over $5k in engine management and other mods (I am not talking about the original poster). It just doesn’t make sense to me, why not just get the right turbo for the job? I am not trying to be a pain here….really, I just don’t get the concept.
Finally, some sanity around here lol.
11-23-2004, 10:56 PM
#63
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Small
Business Sponsor
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Small
Business Sponsor
Hey, I think the water injection is a sound engineering concept….but you are so far out of the efficiency range of the K26/6 whats the point? You can get a nice TO4e for $800 or a little less – loads more potential there.
Oh yeah – “A properly engineered WI system (can be very simple) can deal with anything you throw at it and practically gaurantees never any detonnation.”
It only take a little detonation to ruin your day. A general rule of thumb is that an approximately correct gasoline/air mixture will detonate at +/- 900 - 1000 degrees F. The heat of compression in the cylinder can raise the charge +/- 800F….from there the math is pretty easy.
You want deflagration not detonation.
Just for yucks check out - http://www.me.ttu.edu/classes/ME3322...20Problems.pdf just a little math fun.
So one of the problems associated with the water injection system is making sure that water mixture is completely homogeneous when it gets to the cylinder. This may be possible with smaller amounts of water but if you are dumping enough water to cool the super heated intake charge from a ‘way out of range’ K26/6 that quickly, I don’t know if you can keep it homogeneous enough to prevent detonation in the ‘squish’ area.
If I were to use water injection on a properly prepared engine (I am considering it for the 2.6 16v project) I would use fuel injectors and run them via a load dependent programmable output from the Tec3 (basically like a second set of fuel injectors that can be mapped independently). This might require a little alcohol in the water to keep the injectors from corroding – but what the hell, alcohol injection is fun too!
Just to recap – gasoline / air mixture get to hot – go boom. If it go boom in a very compressed state the rate of combustion (localized) can get close to supersonic speeds. Then other things go boom – like budget for season!
Chris White
Oh yeah – “A properly engineered WI system (can be very simple) can deal with anything you throw at it and practically gaurantees never any detonnation.”
It only take a little detonation to ruin your day. A general rule of thumb is that an approximately correct gasoline/air mixture will detonate at +/- 900 - 1000 degrees F. The heat of compression in the cylinder can raise the charge +/- 800F….from there the math is pretty easy.
You want deflagration not detonation.
Just for yucks check out - http://www.me.ttu.edu/classes/ME3322...20Problems.pdf just a little math fun.
So one of the problems associated with the water injection system is making sure that water mixture is completely homogeneous when it gets to the cylinder. This may be possible with smaller amounts of water but if you are dumping enough water to cool the super heated intake charge from a ‘way out of range’ K26/6 that quickly, I don’t know if you can keep it homogeneous enough to prevent detonation in the ‘squish’ area.
If I were to use water injection on a properly prepared engine (I am considering it for the 2.6 16v project) I would use fuel injectors and run them via a load dependent programmable output from the Tec3 (basically like a second set of fuel injectors that can be mapped independently). This might require a little alcohol in the water to keep the injectors from corroding – but what the hell, alcohol injection is fun too!
Just to recap – gasoline / air mixture get to hot – go boom. If it go boom in a very compressed state the rate of combustion (localized) can get close to supersonic speeds. Then other things go boom – like budget for season!
Chris White
11-24-2004, 12:53 AM
#64
Monkeys Removed by Request
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
turbo tommy I have obviously offended you somehow. Sorry. I aint trying to turn this thread into a joke. You made some harsh comments about a fun thread that me and andrew started and my point is...if you can't laugh everyone once inawhile your are going to go crazy. You then intern take that comment to the extreme and assume I mean to turn this thread into something it obviously isint.
Sorry for the offtopic rant. I think threads like this are very useful to the gain of knowledge. We can learn from someone doing something a little different. Laust go get a to4e on that new ride of yours and have some fun.
hey I got a question. Speaking on effencies ....what would the effeciency limit of a to4e compressor with a large wheel and decent sized turbine(60trim) be?
Sorry for the offtopic rant. I think threads like this are very useful to the gain of knowledge. We can learn from someone doing something a little different. Laust go get a to4e on that new ride of yours and have some fun.
hey I got a question. Speaking on effencies ....what would the effeciency limit of a to4e compressor with a large wheel and decent sized turbine(60trim) be?
11-24-2004, 04:31 PM
#65
Pro
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Boden, Sweden
Posts: 603
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by rage2
Finally, some sanity around here lol.
What we do disagree on is wheter it can be anything else than detonation that killed the block.
I do think that it should be possible to run a K26/6 at 25 psi with WI. If you inject enough water it can remove very large amounts of energy from the combustion chamber and by slowing down combustion it also reduces the heat produced and therefore the risk for detonation.
I do also think that it's pointless to do that. Because of compressor inefficiency the air mass flow in to the cylinders at 25 psi (and say 5000 rpm) will not be that much greater than at 20 psi and the same rpm. Further, the water injected will slow down combustion and ruduce power. It is not completely unlikely that you will end up with less top end power than at 20 psi. Torque and hp at lower rpm will likely be greater because of the lower air flow (and thus higher efficiency) at these rpm.
Even though I believe that it should be possible to run an engine at these conditions I still think that detonation may be the most likely cause. However I still think that one shouldn't rule out other possible causes.
Porshhhh951: I made the first harsh comment, TurboTommy just commented when he saw the monkeys reappearing.
Tomas
11-25-2004, 01:03 AM
#67
Monkeys Removed by Request
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
come on guys. You are making me look bad now..lol. Lets keep this thread on subject. Some can go resurect the monkey thread if they so wish. You wont hurt my feelings any. I had a good laugh.
Once again laust I am sorry that happened but, I think stuff like this is good in the end because we all learn from it.
Once again laust I am sorry that happened but, I think stuff like this is good in the end because we all learn from it.