It works! But. . .
09-19-2004, 03:03 PM
#16
Burning Brakes
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These guys are sending you on a goose chase...
An air leak won't cause this problem. It would have to be MASSIVE to be able to build no boost.
(Don't believe me?... punch a nickel sized hole in your IC pipes... you'll still build full boost)
Having a leak in the right place (ie... having your wastegate unplugged) would do something this drastic.
How many inches vac do you get at idle?
To me, this sounds like a problem with the boost control.
An air leak won't cause this problem. It would have to be MASSIVE to be able to build no boost.
(Don't believe me?... punch a nickel sized hole in your IC pipes... you'll still build full boost)
Having a leak in the right place (ie... having your wastegate unplugged) would do something this drastic.
How many inches vac do you get at idle?
To me, this sounds like a problem with the boost control.
09-19-2004, 03:08 PM
#18
Nordschleife Master
I wonder about that wooshing sound too. I don't have any sound like that in my car. Sounds like a LOT of air might be escaping.
You might have problems with your headers (cracks) and wastegate too. It could all add up.
You might have problems with your headers (cracks) and wastegate too. It could all add up.
09-19-2004, 05:47 PM
#20
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The boost gauge indicates just under .4 bar at idle, which I'm told is normal. The headers and wastegate look okay externally and I have no evidence of an exhaust leak observing it at idle, etc.
This is weird - I was under the car to (1) reinstall the belly pan and (2) to possibly disconnect the vaccum line at the wastegate to test it. Rather than wedge my hand up there to undo the clamp at the wastegate, I decided it might be easier to undo the line at the cycling valve end - I reached behind the cycling valve and - the line came right out of it. There's about a 3/4" length of plastic tube stuck in the end of the vaccum line and the other end looks like it should be in the cycling valve somehow - doesn't look broken off. Anyway, you would think with the line not connected to the cycling valve I'd get boost - nope. 1.2 bar MAX on the highway with it opened up. 1.1 bar was more common. Anyway, I suspect there's a problem with either the cycling valve or wastegate (for lack of better explaination). The car is outside cooling off to the point I can dig around the engine a little later without burning my hand off, so I'll check the cycling valve and that line for proper clearance and that it isn't pinched or anything.
The "whoosh" sound I'm hearing is very soft, it's just the sound of the turbo spooling up, there's no audible "hiss" or anything like that. I double-checked all air hose clamps and they seem to be holding just fine - no evidence of blow-by. Any ideas what else I should be looking for? Is there a way to bypass the cycling valve to test? I thought I wanted NO vaccum on the wastegate line to obtain max. boost, not more vaccum for more boost (although this does seem a bit counter-intuitive). Maybe connect the wastegate vaccum line to a constant vaccum source for a quick (and careful) test?
This is weird - I was under the car to (1) reinstall the belly pan and (2) to possibly disconnect the vaccum line at the wastegate to test it. Rather than wedge my hand up there to undo the clamp at the wastegate, I decided it might be easier to undo the line at the cycling valve end - I reached behind the cycling valve and - the line came right out of it. There's about a 3/4" length of plastic tube stuck in the end of the vaccum line and the other end looks like it should be in the cycling valve somehow - doesn't look broken off. Anyway, you would think with the line not connected to the cycling valve I'd get boost - nope. 1.2 bar MAX on the highway with it opened up. 1.1 bar was more common. Anyway, I suspect there's a problem with either the cycling valve or wastegate (for lack of better explaination). The car is outside cooling off to the point I can dig around the engine a little later without burning my hand off, so I'll check the cycling valve and that line for proper clearance and that it isn't pinched or anything.
The "whoosh" sound I'm hearing is very soft, it's just the sound of the turbo spooling up, there's no audible "hiss" or anything like that. I double-checked all air hose clamps and they seem to be holding just fine - no evidence of blow-by. Any ideas what else I should be looking for? Is there a way to bypass the cycling valve to test? I thought I wanted NO vaccum on the wastegate line to obtain max. boost, not more vaccum for more boost (although this does seem a bit counter-intuitive). Maybe connect the wastegate vaccum line to a constant vaccum source for a quick (and careful) test?
09-19-2004, 05:52 PM
#21
Those tubes are very fragile. It broke off of the cycle valve, unfortunately. Well, at least now you are forced to illiminate that as a possibility.
Now that you have broken the signal line, you should get full boost, if it was a cycle valve/klr issue - but that is all you have illiminated. You are now left with just mechanical issues with wastegate, crossover collapse, torbocharger, intake obstruction - that's about it.
Your problem is not being caused by a leak, maybe obstruction, but not leak. You would have to be SEVERELY retarded to miss a leak big enough to cause that.
Now that you have broken the signal line, you should get full boost, if it was a cycle valve/klr issue - but that is all you have illiminated. You are now left with just mechanical issues with wastegate, crossover collapse, torbocharger, intake obstruction - that's about it.
Your problem is not being caused by a leak, maybe obstruction, but not leak. You would have to be SEVERELY retarded to miss a leak big enough to cause that.
Last edited by special tool; 09-19-2004 at 06:15 PM.
09-19-2004, 06:15 PM
#22
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Definitely. I'm positive it isn't a restriction, since I just put the entire induction system back together and checked it at least a dozen times. Also, if it were a restriction, the car would run poorly in general, not just have a lack of boost.
Is there an easy way to "tap" back into the valve or just hell with it - get a new one? How much are those things anyway? What's the easiest way to test it?
Maybe it was broken to begin with - I barely touched it and all of a sudden the end of the vacc line (with the plastic nipple, assuming that's what it is) was in my hands.
So let me get this straight - with the line OFF the cycling valve, there's obviously no vaccum going to the wastegate and I should get all boost or no boost (which one)? If it's "all boost", then there's another problem, since the line was disconnected for my test drive anyway and I was only getting 1.1-ish bar. If the wastegate REQUIRES vaccum in order to duct exhaust air to the turbocharger, then that would absolutely explain it. I'll have to connect the loose line to a vaccum source and test that way. So which is it?
Is there an easy way to "tap" back into the valve or just hell with it - get a new one? How much are those things anyway? What's the easiest way to test it?
Maybe it was broken to begin with - I barely touched it and all of a sudden the end of the vacc line (with the plastic nipple, assuming that's what it is) was in my hands.
So let me get this straight - with the line OFF the cycling valve, there's obviously no vaccum going to the wastegate and I should get all boost or no boost (which one)? If it's "all boost", then there's another problem, since the line was disconnected for my test drive anyway and I was only getting 1.1-ish bar. If the wastegate REQUIRES vaccum in order to duct exhaust air to the turbocharger, then that would absolutely explain it. I'll have to connect the loose line to a vaccum source and test that way. So which is it?
09-19-2004, 06:19 PM
#23
The stock wastegate/cycle valve combination uses positive pressure to push down on the wastegate to open it. With a disconnected signal line, you should get very high (dangerous)boost with a properly operating stock system.
What turbo is on now?
What turbo is on now?
09-19-2004, 06:34 PM
#25
You can check for a stuck OPEN wastegate when the car is cold . Start the car and immediately place you hand on the wastegate outlet - this pipe should NOT immediately become warm.
09-19-2004, 06:39 PM
#26
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I'm still confused:
So according to turbite's analysis, the line disconnected from the cycling valve would result in no boost.
So according to special tool's analysis, the cycling valve only reduces boost level and a disconnected line from the cycling valve to the wastegate would result in LESS boost.
WTF? Which one is it?
Someone mentioned earlier that there was a way to check for trouble codes (I think it was special tool). I see no mention of this in my manual. What is the procedure and how do I do it?
Having a leak in the right place (ie... having your wastegate unplugged) would do something this drastic.
The stock wastegate/cycle valve combination uses positive pressure to push down on the wastegate to open it. With a disconnected signal line, you should get very high (dangerous)boost with a properly operating stock system.
WTF? Which one is it?
Someone mentioned earlier that there was a way to check for trouble codes (I think it was special tool). I see no mention of this in my manual. What is the procedure and how do I do it?
09-19-2004, 06:42 PM
#27
No- Turbite said the same as I. Disconnected signal from wategate results in DANGEROUSLY high boost from properly operating system.
How did you get that I said no wastegate line results in more boost???
NO WASTEGATE LINE WILL GIVE YOU DANGEROUSLY HIGH BOOST LEVELS IN A PROPERLY OPERATING SYSTEM.
You don't have to worry about the trouble codes, because the only way the KLR can shut down your boost is through the cycle valve, and now we have illiminated that possibility.
How did you get that I said no wastegate line results in more boost???
NO WASTEGATE LINE WILL GIVE YOU DANGEROUSLY HIGH BOOST LEVELS IN A PROPERLY OPERATING SYSTEM.
You don't have to worry about the trouble codes, because the only way the KLR can shut down your boost is through the cycle valve, and now we have illiminated that possibility.
09-19-2004, 06:46 PM
#28
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Well, I'll assume you're correct - why then am I (with no "signal" from the cycling valve) getting no boost at all - certainly not dangerously high levels of it. I think there's supposed to be some sort of overboost protection - is it possible if the plastic part was busted off the cycling valve all along (and consequently no signal), that the overboost protection is just kicking on and that's why I'm getting nothing?
09-19-2004, 06:56 PM
#30
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OK here's the other elements:
(1) Bad turbo - possible, but unlikely. I just put this turbocharger in, hear it spool normally, and have every reason to believe it's okay.
(2) Collapsed crossover - if you mean "crushed" or something, it isn't - looks fine.
(3) Clogged cat - nope - got test pipe. I suspect that could in theory be clogged as well, but as with the blocked intake, I'd know it even without boost (i.e. it would affect an n/a car's performance too, not just a turbo one).
(4) Bad wastegate - dunno. I have no way to test this, do I?
(5) Obstructed intake - ruled out.
(6) Obscenely bad intake leak - I don't think its "obscenely" bad, maybe no leak at all, but for sake of arguement I suspect it's safe to assume there's a LITTLE leakage due to the age / condition of some of the hoses / rubber parts.
So that takes me back to wastegate. If I apply vaccum to the signal line or pressure to it, should I hear it move? Just remove it and check? How much of a PITA is it to remove this?
(1) Bad turbo - possible, but unlikely. I just put this turbocharger in, hear it spool normally, and have every reason to believe it's okay.
(2) Collapsed crossover - if you mean "crushed" or something, it isn't - looks fine.
(3) Clogged cat - nope - got test pipe. I suspect that could in theory be clogged as well, but as with the blocked intake, I'd know it even without boost (i.e. it would affect an n/a car's performance too, not just a turbo one).
(4) Bad wastegate - dunno. I have no way to test this, do I?
(5) Obstructed intake - ruled out.
(6) Obscenely bad intake leak - I don't think its "obscenely" bad, maybe no leak at all, but for sake of arguement I suspect it's safe to assume there's a LITTLE leakage due to the age / condition of some of the hoses / rubber parts.
So that takes me back to wastegate. If I apply vaccum to the signal line or pressure to it, should I hear it move? Just remove it and check? How much of a PITA is it to remove this?