Tial WG doesn't fit - need advice : UPDATE
#31
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Originally Posted by Pauerman
I've got a couple of great shots of a TiAL 38 installed - I can't seem to upload them
No matter what I do to resize the pics the upload screen says that I've exceeded the max upload size. I can mail them to you directly if you like.
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No matter what I do to resize the pics the upload screen says that I've exceeded the max upload size. I can mail them to you directly if you like.
Jake, I installed mine with the dump tube attached (tight) to the WG. I slipped it into the cat section and rotated the WG. With the short elbow installed loosely in place, I worked the WG and short elbow to where the flange bolts lined up. The key issue is whether you have the WG clocked correctly.
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#32
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Originally Posted by tazman
Jake can you post a picture of what you have where the waste gate ties into the cross over pipe?
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Jake,
Recheck the orientation and mounting of the plates. I can see the one that exits the WG (with the notch in it) is in the wrong position. It's been a while since I put a 38 mm one on so recheck your (attachment) plates. Pauerman, post a picture of yours mounted since you have the same set-up.
Recheck the orientation and mounting of the plates. I can see the one that exits the WG (with the notch in it) is in the wrong position. It's been a while since I put a 38 mm one on so recheck your (attachment) plates. Pauerman, post a picture of yours mounted since you have the same set-up.
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Originally Posted by Jake951
I'm not sure what you mean here. Are you looking for a pic that shows more of the crossover pipe?
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Originally Posted by tazman
Yes, as most have mentioned here you should have another connection between the waste gate and the cross over pipe.
Originally Posted by Jeremy Himsel
Recheck the orientation and mounting of the plates. I can see the one that exits the WG (with the notch in it) is in the wrong position. It's been a while since I put a 38 mm one on so recheck your (attachment) plates.
Thanks guys for the suggestions. I'll give it one final try tomorrow.
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Jake 951. Make sure that the cross over pipe bolts(3 of them) are loose and that the dump tube to exhaust joint is also not tight. That should give you some additional play.
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I finally got the WG in this afternoon! It was a VERY tight fit, but it did go in. There were two things that helped in the end and may be helpful to anyone who attempts to install a Tial in the future.
First, I finally realized that at the inlet/crossover pipe slip joint, the two pipes do not quite meet head on when the WG is in the correct alignment. You have to wiggle that joint around to get the inlet pipe into the right position.
Second, you have to install the adapter plate mounting bolts one at a time, alternating between the inlet and discharge pipe flanges but leaving the bolts quite loose initially. Once you get a couple bolts threaded into each plate, you start tightening down a bit, which starts to force the WG into alignment against the resistance of the pipes. This also lets you get the remaining bolts into each plate because the bolt holes will now line up.
Thanks to everyone for all the help. I would have given up if it hadn't been for the advice I got here. Rennlist rocks!
First, I finally realized that at the inlet/crossover pipe slip joint, the two pipes do not quite meet head on when the WG is in the correct alignment. You have to wiggle that joint around to get the inlet pipe into the right position.
Second, you have to install the adapter plate mounting bolts one at a time, alternating between the inlet and discharge pipe flanges but leaving the bolts quite loose initially. Once you get a couple bolts threaded into each plate, you start tightening down a bit, which starts to force the WG into alignment against the resistance of the pipes. This also lets you get the remaining bolts into each plate because the bolt holes will now line up.
Thanks to everyone for all the help. I would have given up if it hadn't been for the advice I got here. Rennlist rocks!
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#38
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Originally Posted by Jake951
I finally got the WG in this afternoon! It was a VERY tight fit, but it did go in. There were two things that helped in the end and may be helpful to anyone who attempts to install a Tial in the future.
First, I finally realized that at the inlet/crossover pipe slip joint, the two pipes do not quite meet head on when the WG is in the correct alignment. You have to wiggle that joint around to get the inlet pipe into the right position.
Second, you have to install the adapter plate mounting bolts one at a time, alternating between the inlet and discharge pipe flanges but leaving the bolts quite loose initially. Once you get a couple bolts threaded into each plate, you start tightening down a bit, which starts to force the WG into alignment against the resistance of the pipes. This also lets you get the remaining bolts into each plate because the bolt holes will now line up.
Thanks to everyone for all the help. I would have given up if it hadn't been for the advice I got here. Rennlist rocks!
![Cheers](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/smilies/beerchug.gif)
First, I finally realized that at the inlet/crossover pipe slip joint, the two pipes do not quite meet head on when the WG is in the correct alignment. You have to wiggle that joint around to get the inlet pipe into the right position.
Second, you have to install the adapter plate mounting bolts one at a time, alternating between the inlet and discharge pipe flanges but leaving the bolts quite loose initially. Once you get a couple bolts threaded into each plate, you start tightening down a bit, which starts to force the WG into alignment against the resistance of the pipes. This also lets you get the remaining bolts into each plate because the bolt holes will now line up.
Thanks to everyone for all the help. I would have given up if it hadn't been for the advice I got here. Rennlist rocks!
![Cheers](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/smilies/beerchug.gif)
![Cheers](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/smilies/beerchug.gif)
![Smilie](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif)
#41
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The results are a little surprising. I can't tell any difference between the Tial and my old Guru WG! Boost builds very quickly with both WG's, but also rolls off from 18 psi in the 4000-5000 rpm range to about 15 psi at redline with both WG's. The reason I went to the Tial was to fix the boost rolloff. Based on this little "experiment" I think I can now condlude that (a) an upgraded WG, even as good as a Tial (this one with a 1.1 bar spring), doesn't solve all boost problems, and (b) my turbo (the stock K26/8) must be running out of poop in the upper rpm's and is the real culprit here.
A couple other observations on the Guru vs. the Tial WG's...with both WG's out of the car, I did a test feeding pressure to the inlet ports and observing how much pressure it took to crack the WG's open. The Guru starts to open at 13 psi and the Tial at 17 psi. I believe the Guru spring is rated at .75 bar, although there is a new one now with a stiffer spring.
Also, I connected the Tial directly to the banjo bolt (no boost controller inline) and it develops 14 psi peak boost. This means there is at least 3 psi drop between the banjo bolt and the intake manifold.
A couple other observations on the Guru vs. the Tial WG's...with both WG's out of the car, I did a test feeding pressure to the inlet ports and observing how much pressure it took to crack the WG's open. The Guru starts to open at 13 psi and the Tial at 17 psi. I believe the Guru spring is rated at .75 bar, although there is a new one now with a stiffer spring.
Also, I connected the Tial directly to the banjo bolt (no boost controller inline) and it develops 14 psi peak boost. This means there is at least 3 psi drop between the banjo bolt and the intake manifold.
Last edited by Jake951; 08-30-2004 at 10:33 PM.
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If you want to sell the guru modded wg to recoup some of your cost drop me a PM as my new car will have a stock wg on it and I can buy the newer stiffer spring from guru before install.