Garett and KKK
08-19-2004, 02:35 PM
#1
Drifting
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Garett and KKK
I searched the archives and want to know what Garett parts are needed as a good replacement for the K26/6.
I would like similar spool up (3200 RPM) but would like to hold boost without the huge power drop after that strong peak.
I have heard about the T04(B and E) being good turbos but what does it take to make them fit under the stock intake?
If I keep the KKK hot side should I do a #8 or keep the #6?
Exhaust modification (from the turbo back) would not be a big deal since I can make it and would like to go to a 3inch setup from the turbo back. Iwould prefer not to mess with the crossover pipe.
Another big question is can I do a hybrid and keep the center section or should I replace the whole thing?
Thank you
I would like similar spool up (3200 RPM) but would like to hold boost without the huge power drop after that strong peak.
I have heard about the T04(B and E) being good turbos but what does it take to make them fit under the stock intake?
If I keep the KKK hot side should I do a #8 or keep the #6?
Exhaust modification (from the turbo back) would not be a big deal since I can make it and would like to go to a 3inch setup from the turbo back. Iwould prefer not to mess with the crossover pipe.
Another big question is can I do a hybrid and keep the center section or should I replace the whole thing?
Thank you
08-19-2004, 02:47 PM
#2
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I can't speak to everything you're asking, but I do know of several cars that are running Garretts with stock intake. IIRC, Lindsey Racing (www.lindseyracing.com) uses Garretts as the basis for their turbos.
Someone you might want to check with is Majestic Turbo (www.majesticturbo.com) in Texas. They seem to be a fairly sharp bunch of guys.
Someone you might want to check with is Majestic Turbo (www.majesticturbo.com) in Texas. They seem to be a fairly sharp bunch of guys.
08-19-2004, 03:10 PM
#3
T04B is a smaller housing and would probably fit a little better, I have an E and it "seems" to fit fine as I am not done fiddling with it.
Most of the upgrades use a KKK replica #8.
Most hybrids are a Garrett cold side with a KKK replica hotside by Turbonetics. Bolts on, kinds of. No need to modify exhaust but you have to modify the water pipe (to clear the housing) and may have to grind the turbo a bit to get proper fitment.
Lindsey is using Kokeln turbos, oil cooled only. AFIAK, those are NOT Garrett housings.
Anyplace that does turbos can help you, I bought mine at Majestic because I know them, a few others bought from TEC in Golden, CO. You can buy direct from Turbonetics but they are higher than others. Turbo performance center, et al there are loads of them.
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Most of the upgrades use a KKK replica #8.
Most hybrids are a Garrett cold side with a KKK replica hotside by Turbonetics. Bolts on, kinds of. No need to modify exhaust but you have to modify the water pipe (to clear the housing) and may have to grind the turbo a bit to get proper fitment.
Lindsey is using Kokeln turbos, oil cooled only. AFIAK, those are NOT Garrett housings.
Anyplace that does turbos can help you, I bought mine at Majestic because I know them, a few others bought from TEC in Golden, CO. You can buy direct from Turbonetics but they are higher than others. Turbo performance center, et al there are loads of them.
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08-19-2004, 06:06 PM
#4
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And, if you are looking for the OEM (KKK) like andrial said, Majestic can upgarde from a K26/9 to a K27/6. Same spool, more compression.
Or just go for a K27/8 (Which is what i am planning on doing in the future)
Again, these are the OEM turbos, Garrets (as mentioned by Adrial) can have hot side replica's and make near bolt on.
Or just go for a K27/8 (Which is what i am planning on doing in the future)
Again, these are the OEM turbos, Garrets (as mentioned by Adrial) can have hot side replica's and make near bolt on.
08-24-2004, 10:17 AM
#5
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Hey
azmi951 are you gumper? I graduated in 99 from GMI/Kettering. I have scene several other students over the years.
Search some on the k27/6 especially posts from Tony G. This may be an "old school" turbo bolt in, but without a doubt it yeilds the best bang for the buck. Similar posts cover the issue of the 6 or 8 hot side. While the 8 side should yeild higher peak numbers, the 6 hot side provides more area under the horsepower curve. This is really what you need for a driveable and fast car.
Hybrid turbos usually keep the existing hot side and center section, and a new cold side of your choice is attached. This is option that most of the current tuners offer today. Do you homework carefully as some tuners are better than others.
Several people on the board have convertered to a full garett. If you have time, patience, good mechanical skills, along with acess to some basic maching equipment the swap is not all that difficult. The dollar outlay drops from the tuner turbo route, but you pay with the sweat equity.
Ben
azmi951 are you gumper? I graduated in 99 from GMI/Kettering. I have scene several other students over the years.
Search some on the k27/6 especially posts from Tony G. This may be an "old school" turbo bolt in, but without a doubt it yeilds the best bang for the buck. Similar posts cover the issue of the 6 or 8 hot side. While the 8 side should yeild higher peak numbers, the 6 hot side provides more area under the horsepower curve. This is really what you need for a driveable and fast car.
Hybrid turbos usually keep the existing hot side and center section, and a new cold side of your choice is attached. This is option that most of the current tuners offer today. Do you homework carefully as some tuners are better than others.
Several people on the board have convertered to a full garett. If you have time, patience, good mechanical skills, along with acess to some basic maching equipment the swap is not all that difficult. The dollar outlay drops from the tuner turbo route, but you pay with the sweat equity.
Ben
08-24-2004, 09:01 PM
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All I know is that the TO4E and TO4B Garretts are dirt cheap, running $400-450 new, while a 27/6 conversion is $650, but would likely be easier to install. Just an uneducated guess, I don't know crud about installing a turbo.
08-25-2004, 03:51 AM
#7
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Check out Viteese Racing .com
Sometimes it pays, to pay a little more
regards
Ed
Sometimes it pays, to pay a little more
regards
Ed
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08-25-2004, 04:28 AM
#8
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azmi951
You have a stock engine. And you'll probably mod it mildly, and it will be a street car.
Given this, do a K27/6 setup. You'll love it. It's very difficult to beat this turbo for the following reasons:
a) quick spool up (just like a K26/6 stock non Turbo S turbo)
b) factory fit
c) kkk bullet-proof reliability
d) inexpensive
e) will hold boost to redline (at least on cars making under 350RWHP SAE)
f) extends your area-under-the-curve by about 1000 rpms
g) proven... tried-and-true steet/track turbo
h) no garrett turbo will beat the K27/6 on a stock engine, at realistic pressure levels by any substantial amount. The stock engine is a 330-340RWHP engine at 17psi boost when properly seutp. The K27/6 will do that easily.
Good luck,
TonyG
You have a stock engine. And you'll probably mod it mildly, and it will be a street car.
Given this, do a K27/6 setup. You'll love it. It's very difficult to beat this turbo for the following reasons:
a) quick spool up (just like a K26/6 stock non Turbo S turbo)
b) factory fit
c) kkk bullet-proof reliability
d) inexpensive
e) will hold boost to redline (at least on cars making under 350RWHP SAE)
f) extends your area-under-the-curve by about 1000 rpms
g) proven... tried-and-true steet/track turbo
h) no garrett turbo will beat the K27/6 on a stock engine, at realistic pressure levels by any substantial amount. The stock engine is a 330-340RWHP engine at 17psi boost when properly seutp. The K27/6 will do that easily.
Good luck,
TonyG
08-25-2004, 04:42 AM
#10
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hosrom_951
The -8 turbine is too big for a 2.5 951 street driven car. Too much is given up with respect to lag for the tiny bit gained in peak HP.
By far a -6 turbine is better for a street car (even a track car IMHO).
This is based on a stock engine (bolt-on stuff to a stock engine is still a stock engine).
TonyG
The -8 turbine is too big for a 2.5 951 street driven car. Too much is given up with respect to lag for the tiny bit gained in peak HP.
By far a -6 turbine is better for a street car (even a track car IMHO).
This is based on a stock engine (bolt-on stuff to a stock engine is still a stock engine).
TonyG
08-25-2004, 08:32 AM
#11
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TonyG -
Any thoughts on a turbo combination for a 3.0L , 8 valve engine? The car is going to be used predominantly for DE, and miscellaneous abuse. Looking to get an honest 400 whp, and run between 15 and 18 psi max. I have a recently modified KKK 26/8 (modified compressor housing with a TO4E wheel) left over from my previous stock engine, and have been wondering whether re-using the #8 hotside with another compressor is a viable option. Some people seem to feel the stock #8 housing and wheel is too small for this application.
Any thoughts on a turbo combination for a 3.0L , 8 valve engine? The car is going to be used predominantly for DE, and miscellaneous abuse. Looking to get an honest 400 whp, and run between 15 and 18 psi max. I have a recently modified KKK 26/8 (modified compressor housing with a TO4E wheel) left over from my previous stock engine, and have been wondering whether re-using the #8 hotside with another compressor is a viable option. Some people seem to feel the stock #8 housing and wheel is too small for this application.
08-25-2004, 02:31 PM
#12
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The ceramic ball bearing Garrets spool quicker than the slip bearing altertnative, easily as quick as the K27. The advice I was given was go for a GT30 however I decided to go for a T61HIFI and am still wondering if I went the right route!
08-25-2004, 02:53 PM
#13
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Hey Tommo,
I drop my T61Hifi in exchange for a GT25TO4S.
Decided I wanted more under the curve power
rather then outright power. BTW, the 60-1 hifi
is only effective if you run it at high boost for a
2.5L engine. I've yet to see dyno nos from guys
running the 60-1 at 18psi. So, let's see if the 60-1
guys would post their dyno figs.
I drop my T61Hifi in exchange for a GT25TO4S.
Decided I wanted more under the curve power
rather then outright power. BTW, the 60-1 hifi
is only effective if you run it at high boost for a
2.5L engine. I've yet to see dyno nos from guys
running the 60-1 at 18psi. So, let's see if the 60-1
guys would post their dyno figs.
08-25-2004, 02:55 PM
#14
Rennlist Junkie Forever
chilibluepepper
3.0 8v engine? What size is your down pipe? Stock intake manifold/throttle body/header? Stock cam / valve springs?
Track or street (autoX is not track... nor is DE... track is racing or time trialing)
TonyG
3.0 8v engine? What size is your down pipe? Stock intake manifold/throttle body/header? Stock cam / valve springs?
Track or street (autoX is not track... nor is DE... track is racing or time trialing)
TonyG
08-25-2004, 02:58 PM
#15
Rennlist Junkie Forever
J Chen
Look at the compressor map for a 60-1 and you'll see quite the opposite of your claim.
The 60-1 compressor is most effective at lower pressure ratios where high volumn is required.
I've posted many dyno runs on this list with a 60-1HiFi over the years here. Do a search.
This was with a non-ball bearing, big shaft, 60-1 HiFi, .58 a/r, P trim T04 turbine at 18psi (maybe 19psi.. I don't remember). The .58 a/r killed the top end power due to the back pressure. The .70 is much better for a 2.5 on the top... and with the bb option... pretty much spools the same.
TonyG
Look at the compressor map for a 60-1 and you'll see quite the opposite of your claim.
The 60-1 compressor is most effective at lower pressure ratios where high volumn is required.
I've posted many dyno runs on this list with a 60-1HiFi over the years here. Do a search.
This was with a non-ball bearing, big shaft, 60-1 HiFi, .58 a/r, P trim T04 turbine at 18psi (maybe 19psi.. I don't remember). The .58 a/r killed the top end power due to the back pressure. The .70 is much better for a 2.5 on the top... and with the bb option... pretty much spools the same.
TonyG