poormans9fitty1

CORLEONE...
What is the name of the company that made that intake manifold??????
Thanks

Corleone

poormans9fitty1

You got a private message!

Tomas L

You have got a point there but that doesn't mean we shouldn't aim for the higher IC thermal efficiency. If you cool the air before it enters the cylinder it will show up as decreased temperature after the compression stroke, reducing the sensitivity to knock. The fuel evaporation mostly takes place during the compression stroke when the charge has already entered the cylinder. With an IC with higher thermal efficiency you'll get increased cylinder filling from the higher charge density. Both these things will help us but the IC can be made more efficient, the fuel evaporation can't.

As Tommy says, the bigger the IC is the smaller the difference from the row orientation.

Tomas

poormans9fitty1

thank you very much

Peckster

It's a secret?

poormans9fitty1

yes

Konstantin

eithe you don't know what you are talking about or you just give us some numbers just out of your head without thinking baout this.
have you EVER messured the efficiancy of your Intercooler. how much more HP did you won comparing to the original one?
how is the driveability?


Porsche started with the 924 Turbo then the 924 Carrera Gt then the 924 Carrera GTS and then went to the 951 and 968 Turbo (and still using the same IC)
It is not that bad as many of you think
I put here some REAL cooling number
you can check this site for more infos

http://www-public.tu-bs.de:8080/~y0003315/porsche1.html

you see that at 80 km/h the outlet temp is 20 degree and even at 240 km/h the outlett temp is only 9 degree higher (29 degree.)
How much can you lower the temp with a much bigger Intercooler???
anyone of you ever messured and compared this?
My data are official Porsche Data from Porsche Motorsport in Weissach
at an ambient temp of 20 degree you have 20 degree intake temp at 80 km/h and just 29 degree at 240 km/h
so let say you make an intercooler that is reduce the temp by at least another 50%
this would be just a few degree less than the original IC.
how much HP do you gain with 5 degree lower temp at 240 km/h???
not even worth the money and time you spend. And do not forget the big IC in front of the water radiator INCREASE the water temp-> and this increase the air intake temp at the IC and ofcours teh air temp after teh IC and at the end you gain nothing or you even LOSE HP due to a higher temp since the engine is much hotter than before.
If you wnat to improve the engine efficiency you must take a look at the WHOLE engine as a system not try to make some parts bigger but forget that this make other parts of teh system working even harder.

now if you can make a bigger coooler with shorter intakes and put it in a place where it do NOT disturb the air flow to the ardiator and has even less pressure drop than the stock IC this would be good. but this is not the case with your cooler or with other aftermarket coolers

BTW I messured the pressure drop in the stock IC and it is not even worth the money to spend to improve it.
If you are not racing the car at a slow track where the car do not see high speeds it is not worth to update the stock IC.

Konstantin
PS: what Bill and Tomas L says is really true. Just make it bigger and shiny without looking at the whole system makes no gain. Better us ea water injection kit. It cools better, helps the engine, do not use so much space and do not disturbe the air to the radiator. Even a wtere injection for the Intercooler would help more in this case.

Darius Juca

NZ951 the previous Owner was supposed to mail me the leftover parts that were supposed to be part of the sale..so far I haven't heard from him..I keep callin him and he says he will..he's allways nice same excuse ...he owes me the cam and the tower,oil pan, harness brace, and a few more..I don't need the extra cam so if he does follow thru you'll have it!!

Darius Juca

TonyG ragarding this:

Darius Juca

Look at the end tank of the stock intercooler. It's not just a tank welded on... It's got a very specific shape.

It's shaped like that for a reason. (equal air distribution across the cores)

TonyG
you mean the turbo to IC inlet right? I al looking do some kind of modifying to improve my stock intercooler..any suggestions..I will keep the shape the same but do you have any ideas how to imporve it..improve flow?..I was thinking keep the shape by home out or port the inlets..maybe enlarge both inlets a bit..enlarge the tanks but keep same shape....man I wish I had a flow bench

Corleone

Konstantin!

Why so angry?

Looking at the table of the air tempraturs before and after makes the efficiency from 52-64% for the stock IC and at a boost of max 0,8 bar.
My new core is >80%.
One rule is that the temprature after the turbo raises with 10 degrees C for every 0,1 bar of boost. I´m going to boost 1,75 bar and then fall of to about 1,50 bar at 7000 rpm. That means that the air temp is around 150 degrees C before the IC. At these levels of boost the pressure drops increase dramatic with a little core like stock.
My core also have "fins" inside and with a same volume as stock IC my will have 3-4 times moore cooling area.
A couple of weeks ago a Swedish 2 liters enginebuild was tested in a dynamometer. At first the have a regular IC, then they changed to the same core as mine with the same size as before. The pressure drops decreased dramaticly and the gained 20 hp at the same level of boost.
If my water temprature will go up I will at first set my radiator fans to start earlier, that I can do in my Link 2. Second I´m going to have a thin pusching fan in front of the IC if it´s necesary.

Konstantin

no angry. it just sound like this;-)

the stock IC has on full boost and top speed of 160 Km/h
intake 100 degree outlett 35 degree
If you check it carefully the efficiency of teh stock IC get betetr on higher speeds.
you can not get much lower temp than 35 degree on full boost and 260 Km/h
this is what i say.

check you intercooler at 260 km/h and let us know. even if you get 30 degree instead 35 it is not worth the hassle. Put a water injection you will gain much more.

Konstantin

Bengt Sweden

I am a bit confused by the attacks here.

Yes, I guess the cross section could be even bigger with flipped core... but to me it looks like it is already doubled and most seem to agree that stock is quite efficient, so double must be even better. The lengths of the tubes are not extended so drag is probably improved.

Is it needed to improve the IC? Well if you are going to push double the amounts of air, most likely there is a gain in doing this, and I am sure that Porsche would agree.

Will there be an overheating problem? I hope not and I wish Corleone best of luck. My guess is that with the swedish climate there will be no problems. There are a lot of cars who stack condensor, IC and radiator in front of each other. Not ideal but can work.

Bengt

Darius Juca

Du bist richtig Konstantin!!!! aber eine es is schone...I used to live in Trier..Rheinland Pfaltz..how is germany these days.....
But seriously I don't think a better intercooler is a complete waste of money..but $1700..autch....plus I live in CA and the radiator obstruction might not help......I am thinking ..just to improve on the stock intercooler and the stock location...
BTW I have heard the the intercoler duct some people cut in their header paner does not affect much sinc eit's a low pressure area..wich it is.....anyone have any dyno results or figures to show about it?

Corleone

Konstantin

How often do you drive at 260? The most benefit of a larger and moore efficient IC is of course when you drive moore normaly with accelerating/breaking/accelerating/breaking.

Water injection seems to slow down the speed of the combustion so there is very little if any gains. This come from guys that spend the last 20 years with dynamometers.

porshhhh951

Hey corleone I just realized you got a Gt series turbo. How do you like it? How is spool up time? How many lbs of boost are you pusing and how much power do you think it is putting down?

I was planning on a GT 30/40R.....the 35 isint that much smaller ....can you tell me why you went the way you did..and are you happy. How much fab work was needed and how difficult was the install on a 1-10?

Sorry for all of the question's its just the Gt series turbo's are new to the 951 motor...and I love them. I am very interested in it since this is the route I wish to take as well.


either that or I just do something simple like a k27-6....I was just wanting something kinda different and new.