FlyingPig

Now, back to the value of 951s (and preventing this thread from getting hijacked...)

I bought a 951 last year around this time, unfourtantly i was forced to sell it. Now im back in the market for one, and it seems like the points you stated are true, 8K is the magic number.

Steve Cooper

Joe,

I think you're pretty spot-on regarding the short time period for selling on eBay leading to low-ball prices and an accompanying bargain price mentality. Good points. It's also interesting to hear your idea about the added costs of getting the car home. I know when I've sold items via eBay in the past that few people seemed to count shipping costs when making an eBay purchase, but getting a car home would be quite an expense. It also sounds like there are lots of complaints about deadbeat buyers in ads for cars being relisted and I wonder whether there was really a deadbeat scenario or rather a negative aspect about the car was disclosed after the auction closed.

I'm apprehensive about trying to sell the car on eBay, if I do indeed need to sell the car. If I do use eBay, I'd be very careful in setting a reasonable reserve.

Do you think a car that has been listed, not sold and then relisted more than a few times due to not hitting the reserve may be perceived as being a problem car? I seem to recall a car or two being listed and relisted and subsequently being mentioned here, and I've wondered if there was a problem that kept leading to the car not being sold at auction.

Thanks for the feedback.

Steve Cooper

At risk of hi-jacking my own thread- I made a spousal deal regarding a new car I want to buy as a daily commuter. Oddly, my wife insists I keep my donor bike in the sig below, and prefers I sell the Porsche to fulfill my "if a new one comes in, an old one has to go" promise. Maybe she has an ulterior insurance motive. Perhaps it's from me dropping one too many inferences online about leaking those private pictures.

Now back on thread- has anyone here in Rennlist actually purchased a 951 that has been talked up in the forum?

jyoon

one thing i really don't like to see on ebay is when they request a large non-refundable deposit within like 2 days or so of the auction close. some people are cool and state it's refundable if the car is not represented like the auction states. i would stay away from the other ones.

slim_boy_fat

I hope not, i bought mine in the hope that over the next few years prices will start to climb. Mine ows me about £14,000 ($25,000). But they are rarer over here, and mine os a late 1990 model so its one of the last.

I can see prices for top one in the UK hitting £15-16k as the car becomes a true classic.

Peckster

E-bay isn't a reliable indicator of values imo, I'd never buy a car long distance even with a PPI. 951s in the Toronto have gone for close to US $20,000 recently. There will always be a market for clean well-maintained cars.

Most performance mods are seen as a minus imo, they're an indication the car has been driven hard or tracked. I always save the old parts if they are good. You'd probably be better off selling your guru kit separately.

Kurt

It's interesting categorizing the 951s that are for sale.

1. 100,000+ miles, good condition, everything updated, scares some people away because of the miles
2. <60,000 miles, decent condition, some things lacking updates
3. Garage queens/pieces of "art"/waste of a car
4. Modified 951s

Obviously there are more "groups", but the variation in pricing for each group has tremendous elasticity within it. It seems the modified ones get slashed the most in value. It's still an interesting paradox though - $10k gets you a great 951 and another $10k makes it an amazing, world-class performer, but you can't sell it for $20k anywhere in the US.

Another thing that contributes to this variation is the 951 is a 'tweener right now. They're not quite "classic" cars yet but they are verging on "old". For some cars that have not been updated yet, that means some problem areas. Yet, these cars are bulletproof and with the proper maintenance, last forever. No answers here, but it's an interesting situation nonetheless.

Steve Cooper

I wish there was a database to reference, which showed the closing sale prices of cars other than eBay. I believe that you're right in this statement, but there's nothing that I know of to reallly back it up.

I agree totally about swapping out the Guru mods for the original stock intake and AFM. Glad I kept them. I also have an old set of Weltmeister chips that I may install back in along with the stock chips. The weltmeister chipset does a decent job of upping performnace without appearing as radical or daunting to a new buyer as the Guru kit and it's snorkel intake.

I'm into my 951 to that same level as well. I guess the best way for me to approach that "loss" is to treat it as the cost of having fun with the car. Skiing, road and mountain biking, motorcycling, gadgets all give me pleasure in some way, and all have a heavy cost associated with the fun. I'm jealous of the folks out there that find joy in simpler, lower cost hobbies. Maybe I should take up knitting or the harmonica.

I like your list. I tend to think of my car as in your category #1. And of course, my perspective has me believing that the most practical 951 to buy would be one in the #1 group. If I were to have the choice in the future to get back into the 951 ranks, I'd likely go for a #3 and treat it as a weekend driver, or a #4 and attend boatloads of driver events. When I bought my car it was at the edge of the #2 group, not yet into #1; it had just turned 90K miles and had regular scheduled maintenance such as clutch, belts, water pump, but no enhancements. Bone stock, and in need of lots of add-ons to fulfill my lust for better handling, better sound, more power and safer tires. That's where I got turned upside down on the investment side of the 951. I'd do it all over again if I had the chance though.

I've never really considered that I would ever recover or care about recovering what cash I'd put into the car, and if it did enter into the "classic" realm at some time, that would be nice, the same way that it's nice that houses in my neighborhood go for 700K+, but not nice when it comes time to move.

Cheers,

Cooper

ed devinney

A data point for the garage queen/art pieces: my friend's 1,100 mile 88 Turbo S recently sold @ $35,000. Considering the pristine nature of the car I don't think that the price translates to any normal sale, but I agree with Peckster - there's money for quality.

Peckster

Not sure if anyone mentioned it, but there's always the recent prices piece in Excellence. But it's all hypothetical when you want to sell. You can price it low and sell fast, or price it high and wait for the right buyer.

Now either buy an ad on the forum, or stop bumping.

Bill

I see a lot of negative about E-Bay, but don't think that is the case at all. By using E-Bay you are reaching a much larger market. I bought mine on E-Bay. Since I live in California and the car was in Chicago, I would never have seen the car if not for E-Bay.

Steve Cooper

I've been checking out the Excellence prices, they "seem" to reflect Anderson's low ball philosophy on the pricing.

Once I know whether I will sell or not, I'll certainly be buying an ad here. Likely excellence as well, but they are closing ads in September next week.

I hope I'm not irritating you by responding to the various posters in the thread. If so, sorry about that... If it's related to my not being a rennlist member, I used to be, but was unemployed for a year and had to let the membership lapse. Luckily I kept my house, my family intact and hung onto my cars. I'm just getting caught up now, and if I keep the 951, re-joining makes sense, if I sell it doesn't. I've already spoken with John D. about the membership, if he doesn't want me to post 'cause I'm not a member, I'll stop.

I'm not trying to bump it up, just trying to respond to good feedback. And the info in this thread isn't just valuable in my situation, it seems decent stuff for anyone interested in the 951 market.


Bill, I knew you picked up your car in Chicago, but didn't realize you went through eBay. If you're open to it, and it looks like I need to take this path, do you mind if I ask you a few questions about your eBay buying experiences off-line? Perhaps at another Bay Area GTG?

951Badger

This is a topic that has been covered fairly frequently here on both this board and the 944 board. I'll contribute again. I have a 1988 951 that has been brought to 'S' specs perfectly. These are factory specs NOT after market mods. M030 supension, Konis, braided brake lines, sway bars, brakes, wheels...everything BUT the turbo. The engine is completely unmolested save the chip. This is the way I bought the car and the way I intend to keep it. It is neither a garage queen nor is it driven hard and long milages a year. I've put just under 7000 miles on it in the last two years. I purchased it (2 years ago) with 39,000 miles on the clock in PRISTINE condition for $17,500. It was everything I hoped for as I was searching for the perfect car. Two weeks ago I did Timing belt, rollers, tensioner, water pump, air filter, fuel filter, oil filter, hoses, plugs...everything. Now with 45,600 miles I would sell for $15,000 or so. I feel this is reasonable considering the conditon and history.

I guess I took the long way around to say that you get what you pay for. Was the car worth what I paid? I get complements all the time and EVERYTIME I get behind the wheel I get a special feeling. Yes, it was worth it. It seems that the lower prices people are seeing are due, in part, to higher mileage poorer condition examples. NoT POOR examples...just poorer.

If the right buyer came along and wanted to purchase my 951 I would consider it. Only if it were the right person. I truly love this car and if/when it goes to the next owner I want it to be loved and maintained the way I and the previous owner have loved and maintained it.

I mean, c'mon guys...don't you just love that smell of leather, gas and oil when you first sit in the drivers seat?

Peckster

I'd have to say bikes are generally a much less expensive way to feed the need than a 951. I rode a Honda CBR for four years with many track days and sold it for $800 less than I paid new. The only cost was scheduled maintenance, which wasn't much.

Brett951

So, Cooper, I just sent email to the four Turbos that interest me in the classifieds... when do you think you'll decide on whether you want to sell? Still don't know if/when I'm buying (I know the bike would be cheaper) but 951s are just SO much fun...