gmonsen

Andrew, They all have different ways of triggering the ingnition (igniters). Crank fire is usually used only on race cars, but would be fine. All the other pickups, like Hall effect and optical will work as well.

You should probably also look at the Haltech e11v2 (www.haltech.com) and the AEM system (www.aempower.com). The Haltech let's you control everything from the one box, including boost control, and let's you trigger and run a bunch of other stuff, like aux fans, whatever. It has 32 rpm ranges and load points within ranges. AEM now has a universal box out with a flying lead setup that can be adapted to any car, as opposed to their plug-and-play system. (BTW, whenever you put in an aftermarket ems, you need to put a scope on the ignition to be absolutely sure what its doing. I've seen a lot of mixups when people just assume its firing on the leading edge or that they have a good solid square wave or whatever.)

Gordon

Chris Prack

Hey thank's! Never been called that before. BTW, not going under as far as I know.

[/QUOTE] Even their own dealers who carry more than one brand will tell you to go the other way unless you are Jonny-Joe hero Pro racer - certainly not for a club schmoe runnin 54's and sellin parts on the side. [/B][/QUOTE]


Uh......no. Do a search of my posts and look at the dyno charts from a friend's 2.5l turbo with an M4 Pro. 452 rwhp. I do not care how much time you spend trying to tune that motor with a Link box, Tec 2, etc it will NOT make the same power (not even close) or will it be reliable for very long. I have used both of those systems and a couple of others and I can promise you there is no comparision. Period.

The support you get from Motec is from the dealer that you buy your components from. Just like anything else some are better than others.

If someone is interested in Motec, PM me and I can help.

NZ951

Ok, where is the scientific evidence that a Motec will produce more power (not even close) than other computers.

Chris Prack

Scientific evidence? Really? Spend some time with some of these systems on a chassis or engine dyno and you will get that on your own.

I'm not telling you not to buy ANYTHING. Freewill baby!! Get what you can afford. AFAIK all of the stand alone's will run an engine. It's just boils down to functions, features and options that you get for the money. What have you used?

Motec is not the cheapest, they did come down in price on some of their products but, at least in the US, the fluctuation of the dollar vs. Austrailian currency does affect price. As of the end of '03 I believe it created a slight increase in cost here.

NZ951

I have used Motec and Link2 only. Motec is extremely expensive here. I am not saying the Motec is not a good system, but I dont see how it can develop significantly more power than others. It has a higher bit rate in processing terms, but that does not net any power gains. Also I find the Motec service crap and their interface not as friendly as others.

gmonsen

NZ951: Hey... Can you be a little clearer? Hmmmm... Not quite sure what you mean.

I have used the TECIII, Haltech e6k, EMS (piggyback), and Motec systems. There is very little to separate these systems today. It used to be that Motec had more map points (tuples), but this is not the case any more. As far as the main maps are concerned, which are fuel and timing, the main concern you have is the number of mapping points. You want to map injector duty cycle by boost for as many rpm points as possible so that there is the least interpolation. Most better systems today (Motec, Haltech, AEM, TEC) all allow mapping to as little as 250 rpm. There is little to be lost from interpolation.

Motec has always had one function that the others didn't and that's maps by gear, but few people really need that. The others may offer it now. I think that Chris is right and everyone should compare the functions of the different boxes and see which ones have what they need and at what cost. However, when we're all done, the Motec will not offer much more than the possibility of greater reliability and I have never personally had an issue with reliability from any of the systems listed.

However, its been a few years since I really looked at the systems and compared them. (There is a site out there that compares all the EMS offerings and I will try to find and post.) It could be that Motec has something special. Chris, you seem to be the spokesperson here for Motec. Could you tell us some of the features that are exclusivce to Motec that would cause one choose the Motec over the others?

Gordon

NZ951

Sorry Gordon, are you referring to the bit rate?

Andrew Wojteczko

I just checked with AEM and they are saying they have nothing universal, Gordon, do you have any more info on this? Also, the E11V2 is saying it is application specific, and does not apply to our 2.5L turbo, is there another good haltech to use? Also, how is their tuning software, user friendly?

NZ951

Andrew, Performance Developemnts do the Link system in the states, its worth talking to them also. There are several guys with plug and play Link computers specifically developed for the 951... this includes a new engine harness and a significant amount of goodies to try out, including sequential injection, IC water sprayers, rpm based boost control, flat foot shifting, antilag systems, launch control... etc

gmonsen

Andrew, First, the AEM Universal is in beta. You can look at their basic system and that's what it is. The only reason someone says its application specific is generally that they have sensors and a wiring harness for the car. You can always interface most EMS with any car by changing a few sensors and the wiring harness.

Haltech has been adapted to most everything, as has the Motec and TECIII and IV. Its no big deal, though you should go with one that has all the features you need and ideally has a harness and sensor setup for the 951. They all have pretty much the same features, as NZ951 points out with the link features. Anti-lag and launch controls are among the newer features people are using, for example. (Some features, like, barometric correction, are seldom used by most people.) I would look at most of these systems as being identical in function. (NZ: What are the rpm breaks for the Link? 250? 500?)

Gordon

NZ951

Do you mean for fuel/timing or boost?

Chris Prack

Spokesperson....no. That is just what we use. I haven't seen anything else in the last few years that I could get excited about. Other than Motec the last thing I looked at in person was a Tec 3 or 4, whatever is the latest. I guy that works with me bought two kits for something he was doing at his house.?.

You can see the M4's specs and options here - http://www.motec.com/products/ecu/m4_tech.htm

It is easy to program and will do whatever you would like it to do. It will run with the new Bosch LSU sensors, it has two digital inputs and samples at 20x per second, etc. Maybe by this point everyone else is just as good? We do a lot of Porsche race stuff, we sell to other shops and go to the track and see what other people are doing. The fast, big hp cars are running Motec. These are not pro guys, they are weekend warriors on a limited buget.

A ton of pro guys do use Motec as well. Is that because they have an unlimited buget? I don't think so. So why do they use it? Really. Why? Why doesn't Crawford, Ganassi or PTG use something else that's cheaper? Why does Porsche use Motec ADL's along with Alex Job, TRG and most everyone else under the sun? Other companies make and sell similar products.

I think some folks on this list are quick to dismiss Motec due to it's cost, without really knowing anything about it or even talking to someone who has used it recently. And don't start jumping up and down about support. Why would you buy direct from Motec instead of a dealer who will make sure you are happy with your decsion?

I don't really know where I am going with this anymore.......I originally just got a kick out being called a dinosaur......................................

NZ951

Not busting you ***** here Chris, but if we dont have scientific evidence, what are your personal opinions on why you can generate a lot more power with the Motec?

Andrew Wojteczko

Chris,

the 450 hp you put down with the Motec, was that with distributor ignition or direct?

porshhhh951

Friends eclipse-$7000.00
built Ported head's and intake-2000.00
New turbo/intercooler-1800.00
built bottom end-1600.00
Full exhaust system w/ electric cutout-$1050.00
all associated-1500.00
New Motec M4-4200.00

Getting beat by a bolt on 951 after showing everyone your 370fwhp dyno chart from Bob Norwood Racing-PRICELESS.....



Sorry just giving some hell. I am of the opinion that if people use them on their 125k-150k race car's with 20+year's in the business then it's prolly a good system. Weither of not the new stuff is a good is the real question. I think Motec makes a nice system. Playing around with my friends eclipse and seeing what it can do was alot of fun. It has quite alot of features. It is quite alot of money though.