Sam Lin

NZ, I don't know what you're arguing about, both of us only say an EBC gives consistent boost through all gears, you're the one that brought up the 18psi and then seem to be putting words into our mouths. No boost controller can make up for an undersized turbo.

As for an MBC and EBC having the "same variation" between higher and lower gears, you're a moron. The EBC has no variation between gears, it holds the boost you set as long as the turbo can support it. That's the main benefit of an EBC over an MBC.

In a nutshell, if you have an EBC and your turbo can push it, you CAN "hit whatever boost you want and [have] it be consistent."

Sam

Jon Moeller

NZ,
Seems like you are missing the entire point of an EBC. The reason people spend $100's on a EBC is so that they don't see the variations in boost that you're experiencing with you MBC.

Welcome to technology.
-Jon

cpt_koolbeenz

<<<No boost controller can make up for an undersized turbo.>>>

There you go! Spend the money you were going to spend on an EBC and put it towards a new turbo... Then the difference in gears won't be very pronounced if you sized the turbo properly.

NZ951

Yes I bought up the 18psi example. I clearly note that as my point to disprove the fact that an EBC cant always maintain consistant boost. I never said you mentioned it so not sure why your knickers are all twisted about me putting words in your mouth. Where consistent is as you have noted it, being consistent in all gears. I cant see why you are not grasping the point here. You are having difficulty expressing yourself. If I set my nippon denso EBC which runs off a pure MAP signal at 18psi, I will not achieve that in first, maybe just in second and would hit it in 3 onwards, as would an MBC citius parabus (spelling check).

Jon refer my sig. the link stand alone runs a 3 port nippon denso unit for closed loop boost control, I dont have a MBC, welcome to checking your facts before you make a statement.

Chris, thanks for that...

Jon Moeller

Sorry, that is my bad. So the issue is that you don't have the EBC set up properly, not that you're dealing with the inherent shortcomings of an MBC.

As was stated earlier, a EBC cannot compensate for an undersized turbo. It can and, when properly set up, does provide faster spool up of a turbo and prevents spikes. Mike's setup sounds like it is a fully sorted and properly integrated system.

-Jon

NZ951

My EBC is based on a base and sensitivity values that are in the PCL map. For me that 47 and 3 respectively. You would suspect I dont have it setup properly as I dont reach 18psi in first, given Sam Lin said I should have consistant boost through all gears (he did not specify at which levels, just boost, for me thats 18psi). Maybe I need a new controller? No hang on, its because the EBC cant always achieve consistant boost in all gears, as per my example again. An EBC cant make the turbo spool up faster. My computer also has a hold function, this means it wont activiate till a certain % of my desired boost. This does not improve spool up. I would agree that it minimises the spikes.

Mike Murcia

You're right NZ. Hitting 15psi and 18psi in all gears are two separate issues. I'd have to respectfully disagree with you that 18psi is not radical though. On many cars, it's a normal number, but through rounds and rounds of upgrades, we often forget that these cars, although de-tuned from the factory, were designed for 11-12psi...including the turbocharger. So, an EBC can help hit your desired psi in all gears, as long as the car's mechanics are capable of reaching the desired boost. Now that I think of it, it seems like I remember seeing someone hit scary boost levels 20+psi in first when they cut all signal to the WG. SO maybe I'm wrong, or maybe they were using a different turbo. All I now is that it works for me. Take that for what it's worth.

NZ951

Cool. You want scary boost talk to Laust!! He is mad... I would have thought 18 and above psi would be reasonably normal. I guess maybe 15 is still most common.

Mike Murcia

NZ, you're running Guru chips, right? If so I assume that they're the 18psi versions. Did Danno give any input on the underboost issue in 1st and 2nd? I think most guys are running 15 and under, but there are a handful pushing 18+psi. You just won't find many doing it with a stock K26/6. As others have stated, you get much respect for your HP #s with that K26. I think it's clear that it is being milked for all it's worth at that level. Didn't you upgrade the turbocharger recently? Or are your 18psi issues with the new turbo?

Edit - just realized you're not running the chips. Sorry.

NZ951

Turbo in sig, went in yesterday. I dont have an underboost issue. It makes all it should and can in first.

Mike Murcia

Happy boosting then!

Sam Lin

I've seen the same thing Mike has, stock turbos making 18+ psi in first as well as the rest of the gears, so good luck with your setup.

Sam

Sam Lin

No, it's because YOUR ebc can't always achieve consistent boost in all gears, don't generalize based off that experience - many people on here can and do make full boost in first gear. When I say consistent boost, I mean the same boost levels through all gears. Consistent.

And Yes, an EBC can make the turbo spool up faster, by swinging pressure input from port to port on a dual port wastegate, first actively clamping it shut, and then forcing it open after desired boost is achieved. The active clamping capability is something an MBC can not do, and it locks the wastegate shut for zero exhaust power loss compared to a spring or MBC setup. The result is a faster spoolup.

Sam

NZ951

Whats that remark about the nippon denso unit not being able to realise 18psi in first gear? They are one of the most expensive and highest quality units in the market. I know what you mean by consistent. As I explained it earlier. A dual port had not been mentioned in the point earlier about spooling. Serious lack of accuracy and detail in expressions here.

gmonsen

This is a fairly complex topic. How is the TiAL plumbed for instance? Are you venting to atomosphere or using the second hose to control the other side of the diaphram? The latter will help. Also, many people use AN4 hose and you can help control the diaphram by using AN6 hose for more air/vacuum. Also, you can fiddle with the solenoid's duty cycle on an EBC to find where it works best. The best of the non-fuzzy logic EBC's are (IMHO) far better at controlling the wastegate and boost than the best MBC's.

The EBC can be used to set boost not only by gear, as discussed above, but also to set boost by rpm. This means you can try things like setting the boost higher below the maximum cylinder pressure point (usually right around the torque peak rpm) and than drop it down a bit for safety until through that and then raising it again. You want to do this, since the greatest chance of detonation is at peak cylinder pressure. You can also set the maximum boost higher in the lower gears and then lower it for the higher gears. So, let's say you want to run 18psi in 4th gear. You could probably run 20-22psi in first and second, 20 in 3rd, and 18 from there on through 5th. Then, in first gear you would run say 22psi up to 500 rpm below torque peak, then 18 psi for 100 rpm, and then bring it back up to 20 or 22. Same type of thing in the other gears. More power and same safety.

The EBC gives you the best way to control boost at a cost of about $700-850 for the controller and another $400-700 for the wastegate. I've been doing all this on my (big) single turbo Rx7 for years and have tried about every way possible. (At a nominal 18 psi I make about 425 hp at the wheels. At 25 psi I make about 600 hp at the wheels and can lift the front wheels. At 18 psi I run 11.2 sec quarters...)

Gordon