Best place and price for rear lower coil over adapters? Broke Bolt!
04-18-2004, 01:07 AM
#31
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Hi por951turbo,
Torque spec is 91 lbs. Two reasons
for breaking at the threads. Over
tightening & thereby stressing the
bolt plus no enough support by the
spacer allowing the bolt to bend &
break. Solution either use a cone
spacer or go Racers Edge adaptor.
BTW, I don't know what other would
say but stick to the original hardness
for the replacement bolt.
Torque spec is 91 lbs. Two reasons
for breaking at the threads. Over
tightening & thereby stressing the
bolt plus no enough support by the
spacer allowing the bolt to bend &
break. Solution either use a cone
spacer or go Racers Edge adaptor.
BTW, I don't know what other would
say but stick to the original hardness
for the replacement bolt.
01-03-2005, 11:52 AM
#32
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Guys, really interesting thread!
To make some sort of conclusion of this, one final question.
We have Leda rear coilovers and removed t-bars. Can we mount the coilovers with original bottom M14 bolts with no spacing and the bolt will not break?
If no then what is the actual best solution for this?
Thanks
To make some sort of conclusion of this, one final question.
We have Leda rear coilovers and removed t-bars. Can we mount the coilovers with original bottom M14 bolts with no spacing and the bolt will not break?
If no then what is the actual best solution for this?
Thanks
01-03-2005, 12:04 PM
#33
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That is what I was doing with my Koni coil overs and I did break the lower bolt after about 6 months of use. I am now running the adapters and have had no problems. It's worth the $150 bucks just for peace of mine. Paragon sells the adaptors.
01-03-2005, 12:44 PM
#34
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Kevin,
Did you not say that you used a spacer to get the ball joint abount an inch from the control arm?
Freddie_fish asked about running original bolt and no spacing.
I'm a bit interested since I'm going to use original bolt but with no spacing, without torsion bars. When asking several independant people that design stuff like this for a living they say that my setup would not break.
However, should you choose to install a spacer, you should design the mount carefully.
Did you not say that you used a spacer to get the ball joint abount an inch from the control arm?
Freddie_fish asked about running original bolt and no spacing.
I'm a bit interested since I'm going to use original bolt but with no spacing, without torsion bars. When asking several independant people that design stuff like this for a living they say that my setup would not break.
However, should you choose to install a spacer, you should design the mount carefully.
01-03-2005, 12:56 PM
#36
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Another though on the subject:
Comparing the load that the bolt would be subjected to in a coil over setup without torsion bars vs. the original setup, I would argue that the critical load (ie. the load that would break the bolt) would be the same provided that you use the same damper characteristics and that these are firmer than the spring at 1-2 g of load and above.
Or put in another way; difference when running coils is only added static load, which the bolt should manage without problems provided that it manages the dynamic load, which is the same regardless of t-bars or not.
Hope I stepped some toes now so I get some angry (but comprehensive) corrections to my imbecile stance
Comparing the load that the bolt would be subjected to in a coil over setup without torsion bars vs. the original setup, I would argue that the critical load (ie. the load that would break the bolt) would be the same provided that you use the same damper characteristics and that these are firmer than the spring at 1-2 g of load and above.
Or put in another way; difference when running coils is only added static load, which the bolt should manage without problems provided that it manages the dynamic load, which is the same regardless of t-bars or not.
Hope I stepped some toes now so I get some angry (but comprehensive) corrections to my imbecile stance
01-03-2005, 10:46 PM
#37
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“Can we mount the coilovers with original bottom M14 bolts with no spacing and the bolt will not break?”
I would think yes, since my bolt took a while to brake with a shock mounting length at 3 times (~2.0”) the distance of the standard length (~.65”) and I had extremely hard shock settings and a 500# spring, but … won’t you have interference problems?
If the torsion bars are removed, then the forces involved are biased by ¼ of the weight of the car multiplied by shock to wheel motion ratio which all ends up being around 900 lbs per coilover and adds to the compression force of the shock.
Three ways to reduce the peak bending moments on the bolt are to adjust the shocks to soft compression (rebound stiffness is countered by the bias weight), reduce the spring stiffness to minimum tolerable and use as short a bolt as possible (distance between banana arm mounting face and center of shock mounting eye).
A couple of ways to reduce stress in the bolt is to use specialized bolts or conical spacers (both mentioned in previous posts).
As seen in one of the pictures below I have now followed through and machined a better conical spacer, ready for installation (~1.5” mounting length). However the standard setup with over-dampened* (in re-bound) yellow Konis work extremely well on the streets (400# front springs), so it may take a while before I get to it.
Laust
*Those who have played around with solutions to 2nd order differential equations with constant coefficients know that an over-dampened system approaches rest asymptotically, an under-dampened system approaches rest with overshoot and some oscillation and a critically dampened system has the fastest asymptotic approach to rest with no overshoot or oscillation.
PS My toes heal fast, especially after healthy venting.
I would think yes, since my bolt took a while to brake with a shock mounting length at 3 times (~2.0”) the distance of the standard length (~.65”) and I had extremely hard shock settings and a 500# spring, but … won’t you have interference problems?
If the torsion bars are removed, then the forces involved are biased by ¼ of the weight of the car multiplied by shock to wheel motion ratio which all ends up being around 900 lbs per coilover and adds to the compression force of the shock.
Three ways to reduce the peak bending moments on the bolt are to adjust the shocks to soft compression (rebound stiffness is countered by the bias weight), reduce the spring stiffness to minimum tolerable and use as short a bolt as possible (distance between banana arm mounting face and center of shock mounting eye).
A couple of ways to reduce stress in the bolt is to use specialized bolts or conical spacers (both mentioned in previous posts).
As seen in one of the pictures below I have now followed through and machined a better conical spacer, ready for installation (~1.5” mounting length). However the standard setup with over-dampened* (in re-bound) yellow Konis work extremely well on the streets (400# front springs), so it may take a while before I get to it.
Laust
*Those who have played around with solutions to 2nd order differential equations with constant coefficients know that an over-dampened system approaches rest asymptotically, an under-dampened system approaches rest with overshoot and some oscillation and a critically dampened system has the fastest asymptotic approach to rest with no overshoot or oscillation.
PS My toes heal fast, especially after healthy venting.
Last edited by Laust Pedersen; 01-14-2013 at 03:33 PM.
01-04-2005, 05:57 AM
#38
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… won’t you have interference problems?
I dont think we will since Racers Edge has been testing and developing the latest Leda Equipement for 951 and these coilovers should be bolt on according to what we heard. Duke please correct me if i am wrong here.
I dont think we will since Racers Edge has been testing and developing the latest Leda Equipement for 951 and these coilovers should be bolt on according to what we heard. Duke please correct me if i am wrong here.
