HELP - AVC-R Setup Problem
03-30-2004, 01:34 AM
#16
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I had to break out the manual on that one.
You are right. The Gear Learn needs to be set to O to use gear based learning...
Hmm. I wonder if my start duty cycle is working...
You are right. The Gear Learn needs to be set to O to use gear based learning...
Hmm. I wonder if my start duty cycle is working...
03-30-2004, 01:36 AM
#17
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Originally posted by DanD
Claus,
have you tried setting the 1st gear to something like this?
This will reduce the duty cycle for the lower gears and leave the higher gears alone.
Start Duty: -15% +-7% -1% +0% +0%
My problem is the opposite. The higher gears create more boost.
Start Duty: +3% +2% -5% -9% -12%
Claus,
have you tried setting the 1st gear to something like this?
This will reduce the duty cycle for the lower gears and leave the higher gears alone.
Start Duty: -15% +-7% -1% +0% +0%
My problem is the opposite. The higher gears create more boost.
Start Duty: +3% +2% -5% -9% -12%
I just added up Laguna Seca weekend and it cost $740 so I can't make Buttonwillow this coming weekend. The next track event will have to be Thunderhill in five weeks. I'll have to wait until then to try this.
Thanks,
Claus
03-30-2004, 01:43 AM
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Originally posted by OZ951
You can also get very good boost control by setting the NE points closer together around 2000-4000RPM and then use specific RPM based boost settings (for duty cycle) to control boost. What I end up doing is using say 58% DC at up to 2500 RPM then 56 at 3000 54 at 3500 and 52 at 4000 and 50% at 4500 (these numbers are a guide only) that way DC is high whilst boost is building and then teh DC is dropping of as RPMS climb and boost has attained the desired level. I set all this in 4th gear and adjust the FB speed for the other gears to slightly adjust the boost response in those gears. Using this setup I always get the target boost level and it gets there quickly.
You can also get very good boost control by setting the NE points closer together around 2000-4000RPM and then use specific RPM based boost settings (for duty cycle) to control boost. What I end up doing is using say 58% DC at up to 2500 RPM then 56 at 3000 54 at 3500 and 52 at 4000 and 50% at 4500 (these numbers are a guide only) that way DC is high whilst boost is building and then teh DC is dropping of as RPMS climb and boost has attained the desired level. I set all this in 4th gear and adjust the FB speed for the other gears to slightly adjust the boost response in those gears. Using this setup I always get the target boost level and it gets there quickly.
Thanks,
Claus
03-30-2004, 01:52 AM
#19
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Just things that came to mind...
Yours is a track only car right? So no driving around on the street in just 1st and 2nd gears. I might even go higher numbers in 1st and 2nd since you don't need 1st or 2nd (much) at Thunderhill. Then see what your max boost is. I really can't see why you would be gettting higher boost in lower gears. If there was a way, just run 1st gear and see what your max boost is. Then try 2nd, 3rd and so on.
Do you know if you have the vaccum lines on correct? Maybe it's not signaling the wastegate correctly.
I just received a note that Riverside Motorsports Park in Merced/Atwater will likely open in 2005. That will become our home track. Should be real nice.
Yours is a track only car right? So no driving around on the street in just 1st and 2nd gears. I might even go higher numbers in 1st and 2nd since you don't need 1st or 2nd (much) at Thunderhill. Then see what your max boost is. I really can't see why you would be gettting higher boost in lower gears. If there was a way, just run 1st gear and see what your max boost is. Then try 2nd, 3rd and so on.
Do you know if you have the vaccum lines on correct? Maybe it's not signaling the wastegate correctly.
I just received a note that Riverside Motorsports Park in Merced/Atwater will likely open in 2005. That will become our home track. Should be real nice.
03-30-2004, 02:01 AM
#20
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Originally posted by DanD
Just things that came to mind...
Yours is a track only car right? So no driving around on the street in just 1st and 2nd gears. I might even go higher numbers in 1st and 2nd since you don't need 1st or 2nd (much) at Thunderhill. Then see what your max boost is. I really can't see why you would be gettting higher boost in lower gears. If there was a way, just run 1st gear and see what your max boost is. Then try 2nd, 3rd and so on.
Do you know if you have the vaccum lines on correct? Maybe it's not signaling the wastegate correctly.
I just received a note that Riverside Motorsports Park in Merced/Atwater will likely open in 2005. That will become our home track. Should be real nice.
Just things that came to mind...
Yours is a track only car right? So no driving around on the street in just 1st and 2nd gears. I might even go higher numbers in 1st and 2nd since you don't need 1st or 2nd (much) at Thunderhill. Then see what your max boost is. I really can't see why you would be gettting higher boost in lower gears. If there was a way, just run 1st gear and see what your max boost is. Then try 2nd, 3rd and so on.
Do you know if you have the vaccum lines on correct? Maybe it's not signaling the wastegate correctly.
I just received a note that Riverside Motorsports Park in Merced/Atwater will likely open in 2005. That will become our home track. Should be real nice.
Is there a website for the track yet? I'll go. BTW, I was looking forward to go to Arizona Motorsports Park later this year and I just read that it closed.
03-30-2004, 07:38 PM
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Originally posted by DanD
Mike,
I think it you put XXX in the learn Gear. It will begin learning.
If you can get the injector duty cycle to work Please Post! I haven't heard of anyone getting it to work. (even Danno).
Mike,
I think it you put XXX in the learn Gear. It will begin learning.
If you can get the injector duty cycle to work Please Post! I haven't heard of anyone getting it to work. (even Danno).
03-30-2004, 07:45 PM
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Oh yeah and am I the only one who put the 2500 and lower duty cycle to 90% to keep the waste gate from getting much of a signal for a quick spoolup? I guess this might make the smaller 26/6 over boost? It seems to work well with the 26/8.
03-30-2004, 11:57 PM
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Originally posted by tazman
Oh yeah and am I the only one who put the 2500 and lower duty cycle to 90% to keep the waste gate from getting much of a signal for a quick spoolup? I guess this might make the smaller 26/6 over boost? It seems to work well with the 26/8.
Oh yeah and am I the only one who put the 2500 and lower duty cycle to 90% to keep the waste gate from getting much of a signal for a quick spoolup? I guess this might make the smaller 26/6 over boost? It seems to work well with the 26/8.
Thanks,
Claus
03-31-2004, 04:11 AM
#26
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Ok, I did get the AVC-R to work with the injector duty-cycle. I made a logic inverter circuit and it datalogs the injector duty-cycle over time just fine. Since I already had the Lindsey dual O2/injector gauge, the AVC-R didn't really tell me anything I didn't already know; that I was hitting 100% duty-cycle at 16psi by 5500rpms...
The interesting thing was seeing the graph, which only confirms what I already knew; that air-flow volume doesn't increase linearly. Rather than a straight curve of duty-cycle increase with RPM, it was more of a curve that tapered off. That only shows that air-flow doesn't increase as quickly in the upper RPMs due to the lower efficicency of the engine. So 6000rpm doesn't flow twice as much air as 3000rpm. The duty-cycle only increases by about 50% rather than 100%. But we already knew that too.
First, make sure that you have the AVC-R TPS wire hooked up to the KLR's variable-output TPS signal, rather than the DME's ON/OFF wire. The AVC-R only goes into learning mode when it senses TPS opening of over 85%.
Second, have your boost-solenoid hooked up only in single-port mode. Dual-port has really slow response, especially in the lower-RPMs when you try to get max-boost as quickly as possible. If you're gonna use dual-port, use dual-solenoids with the outlets of one the 3-way solenoids swapped.
To get the best functionality out of the AVC-R, you can let it learn by itself initially, but then you turn off the learning-mode and fine-tune it yourself. You want to adjust each gear individually and set each RPM-range individually as well. The result is a 3D duty-cycle boost-curve based upongear vs. RPM. Each gear does require a different setting in order to get the same max-boost level. The datalogging will show you much better the difference in boost between gears and across the entire RPM range than a mechanical gauge. I was getting 5psi less boost in 1st & 2nd gears that was showing as 2psi on the Autometer gauge. Also I had a 3psi drop in the upper-RPMs that didn't who up at all on the gauge...
Ok, so to set boost in each gear, turn off the feedback speeds for all the gears to zero:
F/B: 0 0 0 0 0
Then adjust your NE-points to span the range of RPMs you're using. Something like:
Ne1:3000rpm
Ne2:3500rpm
Ne3:4000rpm
Ne4:4500rpm
Ne5:5000rpm
Ne6:5500rpm
Ne7:6000rpm
Ne8:6500rpm
Then adjust the Start Duty cycle for each gear. I used 5th gear as the reference point and set the rest accordingly:
1st: +40%
2nd: +30%
3rd: +15%
4th: +5%
5th: +0%
Next, set the desired Boost per RPM setting. The graph on the Boost/Duty screen looks like an inverted bell-curve (I just leave the duty-cycle per PRM alone):
1: 3.0 kg/cm2 (Similar to Tazman's setting, lots of low-RPM boost to keep the wastegate clamped shut)
2: 2.5 kg/cm2
3: 2.2 kg/cm2 (the desired mid-range boost level)
4: 2.3 kg/cm2
5: 2.4 kg/cm2
The increasing boost is to compensate for the exhaust-pressure creeping the wasteate open and dropping boost in the upper-RPMs. Do datalogged runs to confirm the resultant boost-curve, then fine-tune this last RPM-based boost setting again. With these settings, I was able to get a flat 18psi boost setting in all the gears. I'll be dyno-tuning down south this weekend, I can stop by and help you with this.
The interesting thing was seeing the graph, which only confirms what I already knew; that air-flow volume doesn't increase linearly. Rather than a straight curve of duty-cycle increase with RPM, it was more of a curve that tapered off. That only shows that air-flow doesn't increase as quickly in the upper RPMs due to the lower efficicency of the engine. So 6000rpm doesn't flow twice as much air as 3000rpm. The duty-cycle only increases by about 50% rather than 100%. But we already knew that too.
First, make sure that you have the AVC-R TPS wire hooked up to the KLR's variable-output TPS signal, rather than the DME's ON/OFF wire. The AVC-R only goes into learning mode when it senses TPS opening of over 85%.
Second, have your boost-solenoid hooked up only in single-port mode. Dual-port has really slow response, especially in the lower-RPMs when you try to get max-boost as quickly as possible. If you're gonna use dual-port, use dual-solenoids with the outlets of one the 3-way solenoids swapped.
To get the best functionality out of the AVC-R, you can let it learn by itself initially, but then you turn off the learning-mode and fine-tune it yourself. You want to adjust each gear individually and set each RPM-range individually as well. The result is a 3D duty-cycle boost-curve based upongear vs. RPM. Each gear does require a different setting in order to get the same max-boost level. The datalogging will show you much better the difference in boost between gears and across the entire RPM range than a mechanical gauge. I was getting 5psi less boost in 1st & 2nd gears that was showing as 2psi on the Autometer gauge. Also I had a 3psi drop in the upper-RPMs that didn't who up at all on the gauge...
Ok, so to set boost in each gear, turn off the feedback speeds for all the gears to zero:
F/B: 0 0 0 0 0
Then adjust your NE-points to span the range of RPMs you're using. Something like:
Ne1:3000rpm
Ne2:3500rpm
Ne3:4000rpm
Ne4:4500rpm
Ne5:5000rpm
Ne6:5500rpm
Ne7:6000rpm
Ne8:6500rpm
Then adjust the Start Duty cycle for each gear. I used 5th gear as the reference point and set the rest accordingly:
1st: +40%
2nd: +30%
3rd: +15%
4th: +5%
5th: +0%
Next, set the desired Boost per RPM setting. The graph on the Boost/Duty screen looks like an inverted bell-curve (I just leave the duty-cycle per PRM alone):
1: 3.0 kg/cm2 (Similar to Tazman's setting, lots of low-RPM boost to keep the wastegate clamped shut)
2: 2.5 kg/cm2
3: 2.2 kg/cm2 (the desired mid-range boost level)
4: 2.3 kg/cm2
5: 2.4 kg/cm2
The increasing boost is to compensate for the exhaust-pressure creeping the wasteate open and dropping boost in the upper-RPMs. Do datalogged runs to confirm the resultant boost-curve, then fine-tune this last RPM-based boost setting again. With these settings, I was able to get a flat 18psi boost setting in all the gears. I'll be dyno-tuning down south this weekend, I can stop by and help you with this.
Last edited by Danno; 03-31-2004 at 05:26 PM.
03-31-2004, 03:17 PM
#27
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Originally posted by Danno
To get the best functionality out of the AVC-R, you can let it learn by itself initially, but then you turn off the learning-mode and fine-tune it yourself.
To get the best functionality out of the AVC-R, you can let it learn by itself initially, but then you turn off the learning-mode and fine-tune it yourself.
03-31-2004, 03:57 PM
#28
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Originally posted by Claus Groth
Please explain in detail how you input these settings.
Thanks,
Claus
Please explain in detail how you input these settings.
Thanks,
Claus
Also be careful because making changes to all these different settings can change your boost dramatically so go in small steps!
04-16-2005, 09:53 PM
#30
Instructor
well i need some help all, installed my avcr thru the help of some of these old threads and ive run into a handful of problems that i cant find any solutions for so i thought id bring this thread back to life. any suggestions for any problems would be awesome.
first whats up with my rpms, at idle seems fine but when it starts revving higher the numbers on the screen fluctuate between 800 and 1500. all connections seem fine assuming i ahve the right ecu wire.
speed doesnt seem right either. i understand its in kilometers/hr but its to high for kilo and to low for mph. anyway to switch from metric to standard also?
lastly and worstly it wont controll boost. i hear my little solenoid doin its clickin thing but boost stays at a constant .40 bar. i have a lindsey racing wg and the same thing happened with my greddy controller also which i swapped out for the apexi. thing when bad when i had my engine fire but that was on the fuel rail so what could be messed up? all my vacuum lines seem ok.
first whats up with my rpms, at idle seems fine but when it starts revving higher the numbers on the screen fluctuate between 800 and 1500. all connections seem fine assuming i ahve the right ecu wire.
speed doesnt seem right either. i understand its in kilometers/hr but its to high for kilo and to low for mph. anyway to switch from metric to standard also?
lastly and worstly it wont controll boost. i hear my little solenoid doin its clickin thing but boost stays at a constant .40 bar. i have a lindsey racing wg and the same thing happened with my greddy controller also which i swapped out for the apexi. thing when bad when i had my engine fire but that was on the fuel rail so what could be messed up? all my vacuum lines seem ok.