smokey

MAF on its own is worth about 5-7 hp max. It's the chips and the turbo that give you the power, the MAF is just a very costly add-on for most applications. A good set of chips is the most cost-effective modification by far. And leave the stock air box, it gives you cooler air. (Just avoid big puddles.) Best rule for driving mods as contrasted to dyno wars: keep it simple. However, if you have mega$$, go play.

turbo951fan

Guru racing achieves 240 rwhp with just a set of chips and an otherwise stock car.

I would say that the APE MAF is "absolute garbage at best" if it only achieves 270 rwhp with a KKK 27/6 and MAF. The KKK 27/6 alone should be good for 35 to 40 rwhp.

Where's the logic in your argument?

pk951

This has been discussed how many times in the past, the archives are full,with infomation about this subject. People still don't get it, what's there to argue about MAP or MAF those systems work a lot more efficient than the barn door at measuring air comming into the engine.

turbo951fan

I ran MAF and MAP. Both didn't do the job of daily driving in cold and warm weather as good as the stock AFM. Did you ever go through a car wash with your MAF and watch the A/F ratio?
In respect to performance, I have yet to see the proof of higher performance. My BM (buttmeter) wasn't able to do so. Spend your money somewhere else, better wastegate for example.

B951S

very true as confirmed by the inlet air temp sender on my Link standaloe. I used to run an open J pipe. After standing in traffic or parking the car, inlet air temps would be very high running for some time. I now have a modified stock airbox that opens up the inlet flange to 3" diameter instead of the original small rectangle used for the barn door flapper. No massive BOV or turbo noise either, I was never too exited about the noise with an open J pipe.

Matt H

turbo 951 fan - you can argue it until the cows come home, the stock AFM is junk compared to a MAF. If you want it to run like stock add the IAT and you should have no problem with that. Further, I know of no one who used a APE MAF on a stock car that had a running problem. The problems with the MAF have always been with ARC-2 controllers and the like.

Did I ever go through a car wash? Nope, I wash my car myself, some of the rare excercise that I get and those drive throughs screw up my wheels, cant have that.

Guru racing achieves 240 rwhp with just a set of chips and an otherwise stock car.

I would say that the APE MAF is "absolute garbage at best" if it only achieves 270 rwhp with a KKK 27/6 and MAF. The KKK 27/6 alone should be good for 35 to 40 rwhp.

Where's the logic in your argument?

Danno has done some real good things with the chips no doubt. However, the APE MAF predates that by some time (like at least 5 years). And ask Danno if he would rather have a MAF or stock AFM?

As to the other comment, a stock 951 only makes about 175 at the wheels (I have only seen one go over that amount and it wasnt by much) so if the new turbo was worth 40HP and the package made a reliable 270 with no changes from stock (aside from the chips that come in the kit, the MAF, and the banjo bolt setup) that is garbage?

I guess it depends on what you want from your car but I see no way to make more than 300RWHP without MAF or MAP upgrade. I suspect someone with far more knowledge will prove me wrong but I dont see it happening. If the barn door was so great why doesnt anyone use them anymore?
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turbo951fan

The stock car makes 175 rwhp at about 10 PSI of boost. With 15 PSI of boost and a clean A/F ratio it makes 240 rwhp.

Nothing added other than software/chips.

Add a KKK 27/6 and the same car has about 275/280 rwhp. Stock, other than software and turbo. So what is so great about the APE combo, other than it's A LOT more expensive?

Any scientific comments other then the cow one above?

Then you can add other goodies like dual port wastegate and testpipe (Bursch) and you can go up to about 300 to 310 rwhp.

That's what I have and I am not having ANY running issues other than a great running car.

Matt H

Stock car makes about 175 at .8 Bar or 11.75 lbs (lets call it 12) not 10 psi.

Yes, most of the gains from these systems are turning up the boost.

No longer worth my typing. Keep your setup, the question was is it worth the money. I say yes but I guess the answer really revolves around what you want from your car. If you only want 240HP then I would say probably not. If you want to make the big numbers then it is necessity and FWIW 310 is not the big numbers.

The real question is if you dyno'd your car now then swapped in a MAF setup with a set of Danno's chips how much more could make? All conjecture but I can tell you it would be more. It is worth your 1K (they can be had used for far less, lord knows there are enough of the kits here)? It appears it was not for you.
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shaheed

a few years ago i went from a chip only setup to an APE MAF, same K26/6 turbo, same boost control/wastegate, nothing changed other than the MAF and of course the chips for the MAF. with just chips the car dynoed at 250/305, with the MAF 270/320 and a slightly better spool up. YMMV, but that's just my real world observation.

OriginalSterm

Am I reading this wrong? Did you have both a MAP setup and a MAF setup on your car and neither felt like an improvement? Don't take this the wrong way, but maybe there are issues with the car itself and modding only magnified these problems.

Red1

That sums it up.

The stock barn door AFM restricts airflow by nature of design. Any hot-wire MAF will pass air more efficiently.

NZ951

BTW......I'm a paying member, so I can flame you more now, right?? [/B][/QUOTE]

Not at all, and yes

turbo951fan

I had a MAP but didn't like the hesitation off idle. I had a MAF but didn't like the fact that it threw off my A/F ratio when driving through (touchless) car wash.

I guess there are many people here with MAF/MAP, so arguing against it is like fighting windmills.

This forum is for sharing experiences and I don't think too many people had all three systems installed.

Good luck with your decision.

streckfu's

It's very true that the APE MAF is older technology and unless you go to their shop and have your chips mapped on their dyno, their chips are not the best. I would buy the stuff from Danno over APEIf I were spending $1100+.

turbofan,
I would not base my decision on the one parameter of driving through a car wash. Did you have any other issues with your MAF?

turbo951fan

I didn't have any other issues than that. The Lindsey MAF is very easy to fine tune in my opinion and it would be my first choice. Together with a good set of chips.