daniel951

pdiver80220
are you going to be coming to the get together we plan on having soon. There will be cars that are coming that will spank that m3 LOL. I don' t know if i would have a chance though

HD911

Hmmm my co-worker has a brand-new M3 6 speed and i'm running Guru 18 psi chip kit with Tial 38 mm , Bursch test pipe, Forge diverter vavle and once i hit the top of second gear that M3 was at least a half a car or more behind me. By fourth gear he was almost a car and a half behind! Make your own opinions but he got spanked as far as i'm concerned. BOOST BABY!


P.S. those new M3's have really low torque numbers compared to our modded 951's, over a 100 lb-ft less than our modded cars! Torque wins race's , not hp!

BoostGuy951

I beat an E36 by 4 cars from a dead stop to around 1/4 mile with just APE chips and gutted stock exhaust. I didn't really pull him until 3rd gear. But that was on the stock wastegate and I usually only boosted 8 psi in 1st, 12 psi in 2nd, and 16 psi in 3,4, 5.

PorscheDoc

Yea, i am sure you guys can "spank" them with a modded car....especially an E36, since the quarter is nearly the same and their top speed is much much slower. But to say you spanked them with a modded car, while they are stock...wooppdee crap, a moded mustang could do the same. Stock though you don't stand a chance on an E46, you would get embarresed. I love my 951, but it isn't fast, it is quick, not fast...fun to drive and corners incredibly, and modded yes, it can be amazing and can beat these (and most other) cars, but what happens when they mod their cars? I guess if your implying that if you mod a 951 to the same horsepower as an M3, then yea a 951 could beat an M3, that i will give you. But stock vs. stock no way.

NZ951

I would think the opposite! A 951 is fast, not quick... look in 1/4 speak, quick implies to me that it is quick off the mark, low 60 foot times, but slow top speed. Much like the EVO's. While the 951 is not quick off the mark, but has a high top speed. This is a fast car... maybe I have it wrong.

Eric

FWIW A buddy of mine had a brand-new 1998 M3, which I would beat on a regular basis . Both cars bone stock.

I really like the new M3 in Riviera Blue.

B951S

I think that most new M3's are not modded simply becuase the only aftermarket packags cost a bomb and dont really bump the torque up significanly. On the other hand, most 951 are modded and generate a relatively large torque. I think most E46 M3 owner would mod their cars if they could. The lack of torque was one of the major beefs on the M3forum boards when I was on it. Give it time though and you will probably see some good E46 M3 mods, but big $$$$$. If it was about speed only then you could get any pile of crap and strap all kinds of BS on it. The 951's and M3 are great cars in their own right but the 951 is easier to make faster if that floats your boat and already has the brakes and suspension for a good fast street car.

1988952

correctemundo, E36/E46 against stock 951 (not S) is a mismatch,the 951 will get spanked badly. Modded is a different story, however if you run against a supercharged/turbocharged E36 this it will not be that easy,plus properly set up they handle really well.
But no matter how much you modify a street 951 you will not stand a chance ever against a E46 CSL,that car is only 3 sec slower around the Ring than a GT 3 RS.
I hope this does not produce any chestpounding from some guys who saw a 951 "run with GT3s on the track" ,ok, clubracing does not count because the huge difference in driver talent but on a professional level the 951 is obsolete.
I love my 951S, but I also have to realize it's limitations.

streckfu's

Does this apply to a car like dfastest951's? 470hp to the wheels. To be fair you should compare investment to performance.

The new E46 M3s are about $45-50 which is similar to the later 951s when new. Given $5k to invest into each, which has more potential?

1988952

Did you read my post?
If you are into dragracing there are much better choices than Dfastest951. My definition of speed is handling ,brakes and power working in perfect harmony. no tuner can compete with a 20 year old design against the M division or Porsche Motorsport, period.
BTW, the M CSL is 6 sec faster around the Ring than a Ferrari 360 Challenge Stradale.
I spent a lot of time behind the wheels of the GT3 and 360CS and let me tell you , the dynamics of those cars are mindboggling, you step back in a 951 and you think you are in the stone age.
However no matter how good those cars are today, there will always be a better,faster car in the future ,technology goes forwards not backwards and that was the point I was trying to make.

Matt H

FWIW - my 540 is as fast as a stock 951 and would probably have 2 car lengths on it by 25 mph. Unfortunately the turbo kicks in and it becomes almost a dead heat.

For every beat down 951 there are that many M3s plus. I have driven some real dog**** M3s. Stock to stock in the US a 951 and an E36M3 should be pretty close. If you have so much as a chip upgrade it shouldnt be all that close. E46s are surprisingly fast when they arent at the dealership for repair or having the door trim fall off in your lap (never seen such an expensive car be such a pile). I have also driven an SCed E36M3 and to be honest it wasnt all that fast.

Look at it like this, not much can be done to an M3 to gain a bunch of power you can go from the 170s to the 250s with a chip upgrade and a good wastegate. I wouldnt really call that a modified car. And for the record I would LOVE to see a dyno chart of a stock E36 M3 showing 240HP at the wheels.
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Red1

I can't do that, but I can show you a 951 dyno chart showing over 250 rwhp after a performance upgrade of nothing more than a $300 chipset.

Ok, that's not really fair, and I know it. Personally I like both cars for what they are. What's wrong with that?

Matt H

You arent the only one who cant do that, if you know what I mean. I like the M3 for what it is too, a great touring car. Make mine Techno Violet with sport interior (best seats ever made in a stock car) in grey, thank you.
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pdiver80220

what get together, and dam would i like to see M3 get beat.

porshhhh951

Okay everything that I wanted to say has already been said.....but, wtf I will say it in my own words.

Stock vs stock he will going to pull you(sorry if you dont like it)
Even if you had proper boost with a lbe and a new wastegate to make sure you were getting all your power I don't see how you are going to beat him.

Now having said that ....why in the hell is your car still stock!@!@!@!
Our car's with just a few well placed mods can walk most modded sports car's of today. Want proof? It seems one of my old racing threads has been resurected......so once someone tell's me where I can get a version of ftp I will upload one of my vids...and post for all to see.

Mod's needed to beat a e46.
Dual Port wastegate, Guru re mapped 18psi chips, 55lb injector's, high fpr,
test pipe, and a manual boost controller.
With these simple mods your going to not just beat him.....beating him is a car or two.....you will run away from him on a roll.....5+ car's easy.

Now some tip's. NEVER NEVER NEVER RACE HIM FROM A DEAD STOP! I capped this last sentence because our car's suck off the line. Driveshaft matched with road racing suspenion, matched with lag all make for lousy 60fts at the track so take my advise ...don't run him from the light.

Now racing from a roll is all in your favor. I hered some earlier posts about instant torque this and that. What these people don't know is there is something called break boosting. And from a roll you can have all your power instantly after the third honk. Let's say you are going from a 40mph roll.......once you reach 40mph you signal to him that you will honk and on the thrid honk you both go. Apply mild brake pressure, and slowly at the same time give it some gas....you will feel the car kind of stand up.....like a tiger waiting to jump on prey. You will notice your boost gauge going up......and that's because you are pressing the throttle. Start honking and just simply let off the brake....and presto! you now are opreating at full boost pressure and leaving him in the dust. Now that you know what brake boosting is....it differs for all car's in various states of tune. Take me for instance since I push 18+psi eventually the mild brake pressure I am applying isint enough and the car jerks forward. Go out and practice a few times to get it right. I honk once before I start doing it...and by the thrid honk I have built 9-10psi of boost.....and when I let of the brake and we start racing I build the other 8 lbs instantly. Trust me when I say that the only time turbo's are at a disadvantage from lag is when you are leaving the line. From a roll I can take off like a big block 454.

I have 4k invested in performace mods list of car's I have beaten:
ton's of ls1 camero's(ss and z28)-all various states of tune
ton's of ls1 trans-am's(non-ws6,ws6, and firehawk)-various states of tune
ton's of ls1 c5's(some hard top,some vert,some auto some 6psd)****
3 ls6 c5's-*****
ton's of stangs I mean ton's gt's, cobra's, mach-1's,bullet's all different year's...and different setup's.....todate(only lost to two stangs)
5 turbo civic's(b16's b18's, and b20's t3/t4's, to4b's ect.ect.)
3 turbo integra's(fastest one to date is my friends 94 white gsr with more mods than I can remember pushing 11psi of boost 305fwhp 2650lb with him in it)
vr4's
grand national's
turbo mr2's
M powered coupe's
modded audi s4
basically if it's fast and around dallas I have run it. The hole point of me listing some of my win's is becuase I want you to know what your car is capable of if you want it .....the power is there. I have 4k in my car....no internal engine mods to date.....and I would hand a e46 his ***. You aren't going to beat him stock....so buy some time and bite your tongue....go buy some go-fast goodies...and put a hurtin' on him