[Msg for Danno]- You mentioned a 350rwhp set up...
02-01-2004, 02:24 AM
#17
Danno,
Are you talking 2V Head. If you are, I agree with you. I've been told that there is plenty of development left in these heads. Sure a 4V head will always out perform the 2V head, but as you state, a more realistic conversion typically is budget minded. For most who have a 2V head this is the way to go. There is plenty of legs left in the 2V head. It just needs development. Way to go!
Are you talking 2V Head. If you are, I agree with you. I've been told that there is plenty of development left in these heads. Sure a 4V head will always out perform the 2V head, but as you state, a more realistic conversion typically is budget minded. For most who have a 2V head this is the way to go. There is plenty of legs left in the 2V head. It just needs development. Way to go!
02-01-2004, 03:59 AM
#18
Race Director
Why thank you m42racer 
! Yeah, there's more areas to improve on the 2v head compared to the 4v ones, although cam-lift is already close to its maximum for the valve-sizes we're working with.
"Can you estimate the power gains that were had as a result of the Guru headwork?"
I'd say about 5% which is about twice as much of a gain as most other heads with 5-7 angle valve jobs and basic porting (anything less than full D-ports is basic porting). I didn't do before & after testing on the same car with stock & modified head, but I'd be real surprised if there was more than a 4-5% gain in the head. Being accurate and realistic here, I'm not trying to sell you heads because it's the 'ultimate' mod that'll put you over the top. No, each and every single mod you make is worth its own little contribution and they all add up incrementally... aside from cranking up the boost of course...
! Yeah, there's more areas to improve on the 2v head compared to the 4v ones, although cam-lift is already close to its maximum for the valve-sizes we're working with."Can you estimate the power gains that were had as a result of the Guru headwork?"
I'd say about 5% which is about twice as much of a gain as most other heads with 5-7 angle valve jobs and basic porting (anything less than full D-ports is basic porting). I didn't do before & after testing on the same car with stock & modified head, but I'd be real surprised if there was more than a 4-5% gain in the head. Being accurate and realistic here, I'm not trying to sell you heads because it's the 'ultimate' mod that'll put you over the top. No, each and every single mod you make is worth its own little contribution and they all add up incrementally... aside from cranking up the boost of course...
02-01-2004, 11:39 AM
#20
Drive-by provocation guy
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Well, the race motors that our cars are based off of were running 25-30+ psi, if I rememeber correctly it was 2.1 or 2.2 bar. However, I have no idea how much different the internals were than what we have in our motors.
02-01-2004, 11:42 AM
#21
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"Directly-mapped chips to match the output-curve of the MAF is all that's needed."
Well that answers another long time question I have had. With a MAF/MAP you don;t need a tuning device, SMT,PSC, etc. I had been wondering that as I am still researching the "universal" or used Ford MAF route as the deals on these are so good on ebay. Just need it calibrated for your injectors and I guess custom chips. Of course, that would be custom GURU chips
Well that answers another long time question I have had. With a MAF/MAP you don;t need a tuning device, SMT,PSC, etc. I had been wondering that as I am still researching the "universal" or used Ford MAF route as the deals on these are so good on ebay. Just need it calibrated for your injectors and I guess custom chips. Of course, that would be custom GURU chips
02-01-2004, 01:42 PM
#22
Race Director
"Have you received the stuff that I send back to you ?"
Yes I did, thank you. I sent you a reply from my normal email account and it kept coming back with errors. Same thing when I tried from Yahoo and here as well. Strange...
Yes I did, thank you. I sent you a reply from my normal email account and it kept coming back with errors. Same thing when I tried from Yahoo and here as well. Strange...
02-02-2004, 02:05 AM
#24
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"Ski
Actually Laust, it was to ge called the "Guru 364" kit, which would have been one more hp than the Kokeln kit."
I see.
"toddk911
The real question is who is gonna feel safe running 20-30 psi???
When you say port water inj. you are referring to direct port injection correct?? Like how a NOS system would be set up. I think when others on here see the boost numbers you are mentioning, this thread is gonna have about 2,000 replies!!!"
To elaborate a bit on Danno’s explanation on how safe it is to run high boost:
A given torque has about the same combustion pressure (BMEP) whether it is generated with high or low boost (HP=torque*rpm). The main difference is the higher temperature associated with the higher boost with the well known side effects (prone to detonation, burnt valves and heat stressed components). The water injection is there to cool it down again. Remember also that the listed boost pressure is before the main port cooling, with water nozzles just across the fuel injectors. I do also have a pair of water nozzles spraying on the outside of the intercooler, but that is less than 50% of the port cooling.
Attached is a picture of my port injection. I am working on a more “streamlined design”.
Here are some of my thoughts leading to port water cooling:
1) If the water was sprayed before the intercooler it would probably have evaporated before it reached the intake manifold. However it would reduce the efficiency of the intercooler and it would displace some valuable oxygen.
2) If the water was sprayed after the intercooler, some would likely be liquid when entering the manifold, resulting in an uneven distribution between cylinders and oxygen would still be displaced.
3) If port water injection is used the distribution to the cylinders would be equal and some of the water would not evaporate until the compression stroke, in which case far less oxygen is displaced.
"rage2
With a really tiny turbo, you can probably hit 20psi at 2500rpm. But that turbo won't make 350rwhp."
It will very likely make +350rwhp. As mentioned I can easily generate more than 30psi at 4000 rpm and have seen 25 psi at 5000 rpm, but above 4000 rpm I am for some reason losing power in spite of good boost. I am currently suspecting the fuel pump, filter or regulator.
Laust
Actually Laust, it was to ge called the "Guru 364" kit, which would have been one more hp than the Kokeln kit."
I see.
"toddk911
The real question is who is gonna feel safe running 20-30 psi???
When you say port water inj. you are referring to direct port injection correct?? Like how a NOS system would be set up. I think when others on here see the boost numbers you are mentioning, this thread is gonna have about 2,000 replies!!!"
To elaborate a bit on Danno’s explanation on how safe it is to run high boost:
A given torque has about the same combustion pressure (BMEP) whether it is generated with high or low boost (HP=torque*rpm). The main difference is the higher temperature associated with the higher boost with the well known side effects (prone to detonation, burnt valves and heat stressed components). The water injection is there to cool it down again. Remember also that the listed boost pressure is before the main port cooling, with water nozzles just across the fuel injectors. I do also have a pair of water nozzles spraying on the outside of the intercooler, but that is less than 50% of the port cooling.
Attached is a picture of my port injection. I am working on a more “streamlined design”.
Here are some of my thoughts leading to port water cooling:
1) If the water was sprayed before the intercooler it would probably have evaporated before it reached the intake manifold. However it would reduce the efficiency of the intercooler and it would displace some valuable oxygen.
2) If the water was sprayed after the intercooler, some would likely be liquid when entering the manifold, resulting in an uneven distribution between cylinders and oxygen would still be displaced.
3) If port water injection is used the distribution to the cylinders would be equal and some of the water would not evaporate until the compression stroke, in which case far less oxygen is displaced.
"rage2
With a really tiny turbo, you can probably hit 20psi at 2500rpm. But that turbo won't make 350rwhp."
It will very likely make +350rwhp. As mentioned I can easily generate more than 30psi at 4000 rpm and have seen 25 psi at 5000 rpm, but above 4000 rpm I am for some reason losing power in spite of good boost. I am currently suspecting the fuel pump, filter or regulator.
Laust
Last edited by Laust Pedersen; 01-14-2013 at 03:32 PM.
02-02-2004, 02:06 PM
#26
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Originally posted by Laust Pedersen
It will very likely make +350rwhp. As mentioned I can easily generate more than 30psi at 4000 rpm and have seen 25 psi at 5000 rpm, but above 4000 rpm I am for some reason losing power in spite of good boost. I am currently suspecting the fuel pump, filter or regulator.
It will very likely make +350rwhp. As mentioned I can easily generate more than 30psi at 4000 rpm and have seen 25 psi at 5000 rpm, but above 4000 rpm I am for some reason losing power in spite of good boost. I am currently suspecting the fuel pump, filter or regulator.
With my current turbo (good for around 480rwhp), I need at least 4500rpm to see 20psi of boost.
02-02-2004, 06:24 PM
#28
Nordschleife Master
A note.. why is it that nobody mention which gear when talking about boost @ rpm?
In fifth gear for example I get 1 bar @ 2000 rpm with a K27/8....
In fifth gear for example I get 1 bar @ 2000 rpm with a K27/8....
02-02-2004, 06:54 PM
#30
Race Director
"In fifth gear for example I get 1 bar @ 2000 rpm with a K27/8...."
Are we talking about absolute pressure or boost above atmospheric? We're seeing 2.0bar on the stock gauge at 2000rpm (15psi). Then 25psi @ 2500, 30psi @ 3000rpm, etc.
Are we talking about absolute pressure or boost above atmospheric? We're seeing 2.0bar on the stock gauge at 2000rpm (15psi). Then 25psi @ 2500, 30psi @ 3000rpm, etc.