recommendation on springs in back.
01-27-2004, 01:47 AM
#17
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Yeah, stock rear t-bars. My rear suspension is really still a work in progress, I have koni yellows all around at the moment, ground control coilovers in the front, and a lot of front camber. I was expecting a ton of understeer but to my suprise it is not too bad. I will be adding coilovers in the rear (keeping the t-bars) in the near future.
01-27-2004, 01:53 AM
#18
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Zu_langsam
That's why you don't think it's that stiff (Koni Yellow's). Koni Yellow struts/shocks have very little compression valving. Install a race shock strut and your dental fillings will be falling out on the street with that kind of spring rate.
Also.. if that car was run on a track by someone that actually can drive fast... it would push real bad.
Stock it pushes real bad. Adding front spring rate only makes the problem worse.
These cars need a lot more spring rate in the rear for a stock setup... not in the front.
TonyG
That's why you don't think it's that stiff (Koni Yellow's). Koni Yellow struts/shocks have very little compression valving. Install a race shock strut and your dental fillings will be falling out on the street with that kind of spring rate.
Also.. if that car was run on a track by someone that actually can drive fast... it would push real bad.
Stock it pushes real bad. Adding front spring rate only makes the problem worse.
These cars need a lot more spring rate in the rear for a stock setup... not in the front.
TonyG
01-27-2004, 02:25 AM
#19
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Tony thanks for the advice but I did make it clear in my post that the car (1) does understeer and (2) that i am in the process of taking care of the rear to balance things out a bit.
01-27-2004, 02:49 AM
#20
Burning Brakes
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Zu_langsam,
I had (more or less) the same setup as you.
400 fronts, stock T-bar back (with some 300 helpers, but due to their length did nothing) It wasnt bad at all on the street.
Mine also tended to push near the limit, but this was fine as it pushed far less than any of the cars I've ever driven at the limit.
Thanks Tony for all your help.
Basically I'm just gonna get new springs all around to make this reasonable.
I don't get it to the track often enough to justify making it a pure track car.
I'm thinking 300/400 or 250/350.
Thanks again for all your help guys!
I had (more or less) the same setup as you.
400 fronts, stock T-bar back (with some 300 helpers, but due to their length did nothing) It wasnt bad at all on the street.
Mine also tended to push near the limit, but this was fine as it pushed far less than any of the cars I've ever driven at the limit.
Thanks Tony for all your help.
Basically I'm just gonna get new springs all around to make this reasonable.
I don't get it to the track often enough to justify making it a pure track car.
I'm thinking 300/400 or 250/350.
Thanks again for all your help guys!
01-27-2004, 06:10 AM
#23
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Originally posted by TonyG
I have 250lbs front and 350lbs rear, and the car will push at the limit.... which I experience often at the track.
...
TonyG
I have 250lbs front and 350lbs rear, and the car will push at the limit.... which I experience often at the track.
...
TonyG
01-27-2004, 09:29 AM
#24
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Originally posted by TonyG
I have 250lbs front and 350lbs rear, and the car will push at the limit.... which I experience often at the track.
A 300 in the front and a 350 in the rear would even be worse.
TonyG
I have 250lbs front and 350lbs rear, and the car will push at the limit.... which I experience often at the track.
A 300 in the front and a 350 in the rear would even be worse.
TonyG
01-27-2004, 12:31 PM
#25
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You may want to look at an old thread on the general 944 board that was back in November. It gets into some methods on estimating effective rates to determine what spring pairings to start with.
https://rennlist.com/forums/showthre...ferrerid=15894
https://rennlist.com/forums/showthre...ferrerid=15894
01-27-2004, 09:24 PM
#27
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Weltmeisters front/rear.
But I can set the front to full soft and the rear to full stiff (rear is always set to full stiff) and the car most definitely pushes.
Not a bad push.. but enough that the car needs more rear spring.
Ideally, I like the car to be able to get the rear to rotate more easily than it does now (and this is with 275/17 rear, 245/17 Hoosiers).
This is why I'm going to a 375 rear of possibly even a 400 rear spring.
TonyG
But I can set the front to full soft and the rear to full stiff (rear is always set to full stiff) and the car most definitely pushes.
Not a bad push.. but enough that the car needs more rear spring.
Ideally, I like the car to be able to get the rear to rotate more easily than it does now (and this is with 275/17 rear, 245/17 Hoosiers).
This is why I'm going to a 375 rear of possibly even a 400 rear spring.
TonyG
01-27-2004, 09:27 PM
#28
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Jeremy Himsel
So you can get the rear of the car to rotate easily as well?
I like a bit of oversteer on the track. Understeer or even neutral is not as fast as a car that has a little oversteer.
TonyG
So you can get the rear of the car to rotate easily as well?
I like a bit of oversteer on the track. Understeer or even neutral is not as fast as a car that has a little oversteer.
TonyG
01-27-2004, 11:39 PM
#29
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No issues with rotation thus far. To be quite honest, what I love about these cars is a little bit of throttle corrects understeer and helps rotation. Too much of it and you're pointing in the wrong direction.
I'm going to answer the question of oversteer/understeer as I hate understeer! Actually I do prefer a little oversteer and am very comfortable with a car that oversteers, but many people like a bit of understeer (probably because it tends to feel safer) so I'll let them be the judge. My personal opinion is (and opinions are like ********) the valving on our shocks are a bit too high for anything less then a 300lb spring. Before I decided on shocks I decided what spring rate range I wanted to be in. I almost went with the firehawk valving. I haven't tried anything less on our shocks so I can't really prove or disprove that theory. What I can say is they are far superior to any Koni or Hal I've ever tried.
I'm going to answer the question of oversteer/understeer as I hate understeer! Actually I do prefer a little oversteer and am very comfortable with a car that oversteers, but many people like a bit of understeer (probably because it tends to feel safer) so I'll let them be the judge. My personal opinion is (and opinions are like ********) the valving on our shocks are a bit too high for anything less then a 300lb spring. Before I decided on shocks I decided what spring rate range I wanted to be in. I almost went with the firehawk valving. I haven't tried anything less on our shocks so I can't really prove or disprove that theory. What I can say is they are far superior to any Koni or Hal I've ever tried.
