SFR Tial 46mm Waste Gate Spring
01-22-2004, 02:31 PM
#17
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Originally posted by Sam Lin
Hey Jeremy, would you be interested in splitting shipping on the AIR splitters?
Sam
Hey Jeremy, would you be interested in splitting shipping on the AIR splitters?
Sam
KP, there goes your tranny........ I need a little more bling on my car so I'll just borrow some off of yours. If you're nice I may even give you a free set of tires.
01-22-2004, 04:00 PM
#18
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Jeremy...
"BLING BLAU" You the KING OF BLING dawg. That "nine fouty fou" of yours is ICED baby!
All this time I thought laptops, displays, chips, "scramble", three-stage nawz and riveted aluminum floor panels (In your case, wood) were only in the movies...
It's yo birthday, uh huh!
"BLING BLAU" You the KING OF BLING dawg. That "nine fouty fou" of yours is ICED baby!
All this time I thought laptops, displays, chips, "scramble", three-stage nawz and riveted aluminum floor panels (In your case, wood) were only in the movies...
It's yo birthday, uh huh!
Last edited by Got Me a Porsha; 02-04-2008 at 08:11 PM.
01-22-2004, 04:23 PM
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Got Me a Porsha
[B] All this time I thought laptops, displays, chips, "scramble", three-stage nawz and riveted aluminum floor panels (In your case, wood) were only in the movies...
Bagging on the wooden floor board hey? There goes the car cover. Anyone need black 951 body parts???????? I'm going to go home, take a picture of your AVC-R location and post it. We'll see what BLING is all about.
[B] All this time I thought laptops, displays, chips, "scramble", three-stage nawz and riveted aluminum floor panels (In your case, wood) were only in the movies...
Bagging on the wooden floor board hey? There goes the car cover. Anyone need black 951 body parts???????? I'm going to go home, take a picture of your AVC-R location and post it. We'll see what BLING is all about.
01-22-2004, 05:13 PM
#20
Do tell, where is the AVCR mounted?
BTW - I will second the manual, Jeremy if you need I have some pretty good instructions for the AVCR from another lister (OZ951) if you would like to have them.
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BTW - I will second the manual, Jeremy if you need I have some pretty good instructions for the AVCR from another lister (OZ951) if you would like to have them.
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01-22-2004, 05:45 PM
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Originally posted by Matt H
Do tell, where is the AVCR mounted?
BTW - I will second the manual, Jeremy if you need I have some pretty good instructions for the AVCR from another lister (OZ951) if you would like to have them.
Do tell, where is the AVCR mounted?
BTW - I will second the manual, Jeremy if you need I have some pretty good instructions for the AVCR from another lister (OZ951) if you would like to have them.
Matt, I read OZ's manual but it seems that I still can not get appropriate boost control after messing with all of the parameters. I need to trouble shoot the WG first but if you don't mind I may contact you to borrow some of your set-up numbers to get a decent baseline.
Sam, My e-mail is Jeremy.himsel@belden-cd.com. I don't know if you know this or not but they (those bastard county commissioners) shut down Arizona Motorsports Park. so write them a letter.
Black 951 conversion? Sounds like a group buy may be coming on Got Me a Porsha's parts
01-22-2004, 05:50 PM
#23
Jeremy - you can call me whenever you like but since the car doesnt run I might not be able to help you. You can PM OZ, he is still using one and has loads of experience with them.
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01-22-2004, 08:47 PM
#24
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Originally posted by TonyG
tazman
Nobody said you hooked up your wastegate incorrectly. I have no idea how you plumbed your wastegate, nor is it relevant to the question that was asked.
The wastegate spring rate, which is what the original questions was asked, is the measure of the wastegates ability to hold boost (or rather resist opening against the exhaust back pressure) without a boost controller.
If you apply pressure to any one side of the wastegate or both to any degree, then the results of your proposed "test" are not applicable as you have changed one way or the other, the actuation of the wastegate.
Thus what I said is 100% correct.
How you plumbed your wastegate, or which is the proper way to plumb a wastegate is a different question altogether.
TonyG
tazman
Nobody said you hooked up your wastegate incorrectly. I have no idea how you plumbed your wastegate, nor is it relevant to the question that was asked.
The wastegate spring rate, which is what the original questions was asked, is the measure of the wastegates ability to hold boost (or rather resist opening against the exhaust back pressure) without a boost controller.
If you apply pressure to any one side of the wastegate or both to any degree, then the results of your proposed "test" are not applicable as you have changed one way or the other, the actuation of the wastegate.
Thus what I said is 100% correct.
How you plumbed your wastegate, or which is the proper way to plumb a wastegate is a different question altogether.
TonyG
01-23-2004, 06:58 AM
#25
Race Director
"The spring pressure can be tested, by only connecting the Tial side port to the intercooler banjo bolt(manifold pressure). Once the manifold pressure has reached the maximum presure that the Tial spring can hold, it will start to open, and that will indicate to you, what spring is in your Tial."
MySwiss, you're right on.
"MySwiss
That is not correct. Applying pressure to the side of the wastegate to cause it to open is not the test of the wastegate spring."
So what IS the correct procedure for testing the wastegate spring?
"Example: I have a 1 bar spring in my Tial 46mm. If I only have the side of the port connected that opens the wastegate connected straight to the high pressure side of the intake tract (in this case the banjo bolt) I will only see 10psi - 10.5 psi boost (yet the spring is infact the 1 bar (15psi) spring)."
You have a 10.5psi spring then. The spring-rating is the pressure at which that pressure in the boost-side of the diaphragm causes the wastegate-valve to start to open. This pressure also coincides with the desired boost-level. If you have a 15psi spring, then 15psi in the diaphragm is just where it barely starts to open the valve. At 16psi, it opens the valve further and dumps boost. Boost then drops to 15psi and the wastegate closes. Due to momentum, the turbo slows down a bit more and you get 14psi before it starts to work its way up again. At 15psi, the wastegate barely opens and at 16psi, it dumps some boost. This is a mechanical feedback loop with 15psi centered in the open-close extremes. The result is that a spring that responses to 15psi boost-pressure and maintains the feedback cycle centered around 15psi is called a "15psi" or "1-bar" spring.
This goes back to the old days of mechanical boost-regulation before adjustable boost-controllers and dual-port wastegates (which can be operated in single-port mode). A line is run from the banjo-bolt on the intercooler directly to the pressure-port on the wastegate diaphragm. Boost-pressure then counter-acts the spring-tension holding the valve shut. At some pressure, the force on the diaphragm overcomes the spring-tension holding the valve closed. You would then swap in springs of various rates to adjust your desired boost level; the stiffer the spring, the more boost/diaphragm pressure is needed to open the valve & vice-versa. This "15-psi" or "1-bar" rating on the spring is not the spring-rate, it's just a rating that says, "when used in such & such a wastegate, this spring will result in X-psi boost when boost is fed directly into the diaphragm." This avoids messy calculations with pressure-to-force equations based upon the number of square-inches on the diaphragm multiplied by boost-pressure, etc...
Also, never, ever test full-throttle on a wastegate that has had its control lines removed. While this can be a test of the wastegate's spring clamping ability against exhaust pressure, you must test it gradually with several runs with increasing boost. Even with a stock 951 wastegate with stock turbo, disconnecting the control line can easily result in 25-28psi of max-boost in the mid-range...
MySwiss, you're right on.
"MySwiss
That is not correct. Applying pressure to the side of the wastegate to cause it to open is not the test of the wastegate spring."
So what IS the correct procedure for testing the wastegate spring?
"Example: I have a 1 bar spring in my Tial 46mm. If I only have the side of the port connected that opens the wastegate connected straight to the high pressure side of the intake tract (in this case the banjo bolt) I will only see 10psi - 10.5 psi boost (yet the spring is infact the 1 bar (15psi) spring)."
You have a 10.5psi spring then. The spring-rating is the pressure at which that pressure in the boost-side of the diaphragm causes the wastegate-valve to start to open. This pressure also coincides with the desired boost-level. If you have a 15psi spring, then 15psi in the diaphragm is just where it barely starts to open the valve. At 16psi, it opens the valve further and dumps boost. Boost then drops to 15psi and the wastegate closes. Due to momentum, the turbo slows down a bit more and you get 14psi before it starts to work its way up again. At 15psi, the wastegate barely opens and at 16psi, it dumps some boost. This is a mechanical feedback loop with 15psi centered in the open-close extremes. The result is that a spring that responses to 15psi boost-pressure and maintains the feedback cycle centered around 15psi is called a "15psi" or "1-bar" spring.
This goes back to the old days of mechanical boost-regulation before adjustable boost-controllers and dual-port wastegates (which can be operated in single-port mode). A line is run from the banjo-bolt on the intercooler directly to the pressure-port on the wastegate diaphragm. Boost-pressure then counter-acts the spring-tension holding the valve shut. At some pressure, the force on the diaphragm overcomes the spring-tension holding the valve closed. You would then swap in springs of various rates to adjust your desired boost level; the stiffer the spring, the more boost/diaphragm pressure is needed to open the valve & vice-versa. This "15-psi" or "1-bar" rating on the spring is not the spring-rate, it's just a rating that says, "when used in such & such a wastegate, this spring will result in X-psi boost when boost is fed directly into the diaphragm." This avoids messy calculations with pressure-to-force equations based upon the number of square-inches on the diaphragm multiplied by boost-pressure, etc...
Also, never, ever test full-throttle on a wastegate that has had its control lines removed. While this can be a test of the wastegate's spring clamping ability against exhaust pressure, you must test it gradually with several runs with increasing boost. Even with a stock 951 wastegate with stock turbo, disconnecting the control line can easily result in 25-28psi of max-boost in the mid-range...
Last edited by Danno; 01-23-2004 at 07:26 AM.
