Clutch Pedal behaviour and.. carpet stop?
03-12-2018, 02:51 PM
#1
Drifting
Thread Starter
Clutch Pedal behaviour and.. carpet stop?
I have installed a new clutch, pressure plate, and slave cylinder. Looking closely at my clutch pedal opreation, I notice two things:
1. The pedal travels aprox. 1.5” before the release lever begins moving, as seen through the inspection window.
I have no idea what the 3mm free play is suppose to feel like; with hand action, there is an initial hard effort to overcome and get the pedal moving—maybe 1mm play there—then the 1.5” soft travel before actual release movement. The foot only feels the soft travel
The release lever appears to travel the required 15mm. All sound good?
2. There is a hole in the carpet where the pedal hits. Behind the carpet, it's hollow. Is there supposed to be a hard stop there that I'm perhaps missing? I can't feel where it would screw into though?
1. The pedal travels aprox. 1.5” before the release lever begins moving, as seen through the inspection window.
I have no idea what the 3mm free play is suppose to feel like; with hand action, there is an initial hard effort to overcome and get the pedal moving—maybe 1mm play there—then the 1.5” soft travel before actual release movement. The foot only feels the soft travel
The release lever appears to travel the required 15mm. All sound good?
2. There is a hole in the carpet where the pedal hits. Behind the carpet, it's hollow. Is there supposed to be a hard stop there that I'm perhaps missing? I can't feel where it would screw into though?
03-15-2018, 08:03 AM
#2
Drifting
Thread Starter
Nevermind about the clutch free play; this video shows the motion perfectly... fast forward to 12:14
And.. clearly in this video there is no stop at the carpet for the clutch pedal. Odd that mine has made a hole in the carpet.. and the carpet doesn't rest up against the metal behind it
And.. clearly in this video there is no stop at the carpet for the clutch pedal. Odd that mine has made a hole in the carpet.. and the carpet doesn't rest up against the metal behind it
03-15-2018, 01:25 PM
#3
Burning Brakes
you have too much free play, simple adjustment, as for the hole behind the clutch pedal as a "hard stop", I do not recall that ever being a thing but that's just me
03-16-2018, 10:28 PM
#5
Drifting
Thread Starter
I adjusted and yes, it's pretty easy. With my son helping, I was able to both feel the play and watch the fork movement at the inspection hole.
I didn't want the clutch to even twitch during free play; it was kinda tricky to get a decent amount of play yet keep the fork from showing sign of contact.
I think I got in the 3-5mm range. I would imagine it would be easier to feel with the pedal helper spring disconnected; that thing puts a lot of tension as it rotates during the free play initial effort
I didn't want the clutch to even twitch during free play; it was kinda tricky to get a decent amount of play yet keep the fork from showing sign of contact.
I think I got in the 3-5mm range. I would imagine it would be easier to feel with the pedal helper spring disconnected; that thing puts a lot of tension as it rotates during the free play initial effort
04-22-2018, 10:36 PM
#6
Drifting
Thread Starter
Just wanted to update this for the sake of posterity
Driving the car for the first time, after about 30km the pedal became pretty hard / stiff. Though the clutch wasn't slipping, the pedal felt uncomfortably hard; and, the clutch started grabbing very high.
I spent much time going over all I could find on "porsche 944 clutch pedal free play". I thought I would add another description on what I eventually settled on with yet another re-adjustment; perhaps my explanation may help those like me who remained confused after all that research.
In the video I made below, I take note of the brake pedal "free play"--it's about 2-3mm, and since there's no spring attached to the pedal, it's nice and easy to feel.
For the clutch pedal, this time I played with a large range of adjustment, threading the rod quite far in both directions. I noticed that at one point, the rod got very stiff. At another piont (ie. moving away from the master cylinder), the rod got very wiggly.
Clearly, as the rod contacts the "cup" or whatever it's called in the MC, it stiffens up. So, I threaded it away till it got wiggly again, and I could now feel the difference between this "free play" and the "easy force" part of the pedal's travel, which is the first couple of inches.
It kinda feels like 2 free play areas; the first, a super-short one that is easily missed (or non-existent if adjustment is too tight), and the second a fair bit of easier travel before the spring turns and pushes downward--which ironically gets heavier (like it's the real working part of the clutch movement).
I think lots of people are mistaking this second part for "free play". If you don't feel a few mm (3mm) initial play, then the slightly easier drop, then the heavier push, I think you don't have the recommended free play.
This initial 3mm is very hard to determine as you are also overcoming the initial spring and pivot movement. In this video, I show both this initial play, the second "play" (the point where the clutch fork is actually starting to move), and the full depression. Notice that the initial play is roughly equal to the brake pedal free play.
I've been driving around all day and the clutch pedal hasn't changed. Looking at the inspection hole while someone pushes the clutch, I measure pretty much exactly 15mm travel. My new clutch measures 22mm from edge of the hole to tip of clutch fork back (WSM says 18mm new with wear limit of 34mm). It's hard to measure.. I spent a lot of time on this. Not sure what it means that I'm a little greater than 18mm.. but the drive feel is pretty good.
It now feels very light and catches very low. The feel is much like my other two manual cars (Kia and Mazda), which is to say, pretty normal. The posts I read about 944 clutches being heavy I don't think are correct; it was only heavy when misadjusted, to which it got much heavier and stiff after initial use.
Driving the car for the first time, after about 30km the pedal became pretty hard / stiff. Though the clutch wasn't slipping, the pedal felt uncomfortably hard; and, the clutch started grabbing very high.
I spent much time going over all I could find on "porsche 944 clutch pedal free play". I thought I would add another description on what I eventually settled on with yet another re-adjustment; perhaps my explanation may help those like me who remained confused after all that research.
In the video I made below, I take note of the brake pedal "free play"--it's about 2-3mm, and since there's no spring attached to the pedal, it's nice and easy to feel.
For the clutch pedal, this time I played with a large range of adjustment, threading the rod quite far in both directions. I noticed that at one point, the rod got very stiff. At another piont (ie. moving away from the master cylinder), the rod got very wiggly.
Clearly, as the rod contacts the "cup" or whatever it's called in the MC, it stiffens up. So, I threaded it away till it got wiggly again, and I could now feel the difference between this "free play" and the "easy force" part of the pedal's travel, which is the first couple of inches.
It kinda feels like 2 free play areas; the first, a super-short one that is easily missed (or non-existent if adjustment is too tight), and the second a fair bit of easier travel before the spring turns and pushes downward--which ironically gets heavier (like it's the real working part of the clutch movement).
I think lots of people are mistaking this second part for "free play". If you don't feel a few mm (3mm) initial play, then the slightly easier drop, then the heavier push, I think you don't have the recommended free play.
This initial 3mm is very hard to determine as you are also overcoming the initial spring and pivot movement. In this video, I show both this initial play, the second "play" (the point where the clutch fork is actually starting to move), and the full depression. Notice that the initial play is roughly equal to the brake pedal free play.
I've been driving around all day and the clutch pedal hasn't changed. Looking at the inspection hole while someone pushes the clutch, I measure pretty much exactly 15mm travel. My new clutch measures 22mm from edge of the hole to tip of clutch fork back (WSM says 18mm new with wear limit of 34mm). It's hard to measure.. I spent a lot of time on this. Not sure what it means that I'm a little greater than 18mm.. but the drive feel is pretty good.
It now feels very light and catches very low. The feel is much like my other two manual cars (Kia and Mazda), which is to say, pretty normal. The posts I read about 944 clutches being heavy I don't think are correct; it was only heavy when misadjusted, to which it got much heavier and stiff after initial use.
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Tom924S (03-04-2024)
04-23-2018, 02:26 AM
#7
Drifting
Dan your travel in your pedals are good. If anything I would replace the plastic bushings and the metal ones at the top of the shaft for both of the pedals if you have major OCD issues. Many of us have the same issue so it's all good. I can't locate the plastic ones but some here I'm sure can help. Found them.
https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?m...2F221566272978
https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?m...2F222784184228
https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?m...2F192074380294
https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?m...2F221566272978
https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?m...2F222784184228
https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?m...2F192074380294
Last edited by Humboldtgrin; 04-23-2018 at 02:59 AM.
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03-04-2024, 12:23 PM
#9
https://youtu.be/pl3b4qC600E
I've been driving around all day and the clutch pedal hasn't changed. Looking at the inspection hole while someone pushes the clutch, I measure pretty much exactly 15mm travel. My new clutch measures 22mm from edge of the hole to tip of clutch fork back (WSM says 18mm new with wear limit of 34mm). It's hard to measure.. I spent a lot of time on this. Not sure what it means that I'm a little greater than 18mm.. but the drive feel is pretty good.
It now feels very light and catches very low. The feel is much like my other two manual cars (Kia and Mazda), which is to say, pretty normal. The posts I read about 944 clutches being heavy I don't think are correct; it was only heavy when misadjusted, to which it got much heavier and stiff after initial use.
I've been driving around all day and the clutch pedal hasn't changed. Looking at the inspection hole while someone pushes the clutch, I measure pretty much exactly 15mm travel. My new clutch measures 22mm from edge of the hole to tip of clutch fork back (WSM says 18mm new with wear limit of 34mm). It's hard to measure.. I spent a lot of time on this. Not sure what it means that I'm a little greater than 18mm.. but the drive feel is pretty good.
It now feels very light and catches very low. The feel is much like my other two manual cars (Kia and Mazda), which is to say, pretty normal. The posts I read about 944 clutches being heavy I don't think are correct; it was only heavy when misadjusted, to which it got much heavier and stiff after initial use.
Final result is the same as in the video: 3mm free play then a bit longer travel with light resistance then comes the real pushing but still pretty easy and catches very low, seems to engage and disengage normally. New clutch installed along with pressure plate, fork bearings, etc. I don't expect it to be stiff and tough to push down the pedal either..