Finally! Compressor Maps for K26, K27.2...
12-13-2003 | 05:12 PM
#32
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From: Germany/Braunschweig
Originally posted by Sach951
Bump
Bump
save the web space and write something helpfull.
Thanks
Konstantin
12-13-2003 | 06:19 PM
#33
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according to turbonetics the 60-1 HI FI is smaler and flows only 90-95% of the real 60-1 compressor.
So why not use the real 60-1 compressor?
So why not use the real 60-1 compressor?
The 60-1 HI-FI uses a T04B housing witch fits under the intake manifold in our car.
The normal 60-1 uses a TS04 housing witch is way to big to fit under a stock manifold.
Also the 60-1HI-FI has plenty of flow for our cars.
12-14-2003 | 08:05 AM
#34
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From: Germany/Braunschweig
hello
I thought the 60-1 use the T04E housing
does thatmeans teh biggets one wheel for a T04E is the 60 ( not the 60-1)
how much lbs flows the 60 really (it seems that is flows no more than a 57.
how much the 60-1 and how much the 60-1 hi fi?
any data or maps on them?
My frined has inhis 2.5 L a Vittese Turbo He thinks it is a 57 wheel. Important is that his car makes boost even at 2500 upm and it spools up almost as fast as a k27/6. once at 3000 rpm it makes boost must faster and the car accelarates MUCH faster.
I was looking for the perfect Turbo for an Auto x. It must makes boost at 2000 rpm in 2nd gear since this is what I need coming out of the corners.
also do not forget tha the Turbine wheel has also a map and we can not judge how good a Turbo is just form the compressor wheel.
both are important and Turbine and compressor wheel must suit toghether
do the TS04 housing fit under our intake manifold with some millingg etc. anyway this also must be done for the T04E housing too otherwise it do not fit.
Konstantin
I thought the 60-1 use the T04E housing
does thatmeans teh biggets one wheel for a T04E is the 60 ( not the 60-1)
how much lbs flows the 60 really (it seems that is flows no more than a 57.
how much the 60-1 and how much the 60-1 hi fi?
any data or maps on them?
My frined has inhis 2.5 L a Vittese Turbo He thinks it is a 57 wheel. Important is that his car makes boost even at 2500 upm and it spools up almost as fast as a k27/6. once at 3000 rpm it makes boost must faster and the car accelarates MUCH faster.
I was looking for the perfect Turbo for an Auto x. It must makes boost at 2000 rpm in 2nd gear since this is what I need coming out of the corners.
also do not forget tha the Turbine wheel has also a map and we can not judge how good a Turbo is just form the compressor wheel.
both are important and Turbine and compressor wheel must suit toghether
do the TS04 housing fit under our intake manifold with some millingg etc. anyway this also must be done for the T04E housing too otherwise it do not fit.
Konstantin
12-14-2003 | 08:13 AM
#35
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From: Boden, Sweden
12-14-2003 | 01:31 PM
#37
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Konstantin
>>>according to turbonetics the 60-1 HI FI is smaler and flows only 90-95% of the real 60-1 compressor.
So why not use the real 60-1 compressor?<<<
Size.... The HiFi fits inder the intake w/o modifications. The full 60-1 doesn't.
TonyG
>>>according to turbonetics the 60-1 HI FI is smaler and flows only 90-95% of the real 60-1 compressor.
So why not use the real 60-1 compressor?<<<
Size.... The HiFi fits inder the intake w/o modifications. The full 60-1 doesn't.
TonyG
12-14-2003 | 08:42 PM
#38
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From: Montreal, Canada
do the TS04 housing fit under our intake manifold with some millingg etc. anyway this also must be done for the T04E housing too otherwise it do not fit.
The TS04 is big see picture.
Also if you are looking for a fast spooling auto x turbo. The 60-1 & 60-1HI-FI are too big. IMO
But i don't know how a 60-1 HI-FI would work with a #6 turbine. Maybe it would be a good combo. ???
I have been in a 951 with a T04E-50trim #8 turbine and it got its max boost by 3300rpm.(16psi)
12-19-2003 | 07:33 PM
#39
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From: Bristol
Hi guys.
I have been searching for porsche KKK turbo pictures, maps and info in general. I am building an audi coupe quattro with a 20vT. Basically the same as an Audi S2 found in europe. The Turbo found on an aby 20v 5cylinder motor is a k24. The Turbo found on a RS2 is a k26 and the famed audi sport quattro came with a k27. ALL these motors are 2.2L btw.
I most likely will be building a turbo probably in the next month or so. Or having some one like majestic build me a turbo based on my specs.
Basically I wanted to mention is lack of commenting on The compressor wheel efficiency.
Reading KKK warner parts #s.
Let's pick the later model 944 k26 with the 8# hot side.
53269707042
Brake it down 53-26-970-70-42
The 26 refers to k26 and the 70 refers to it's efficiency. IT basically maxes out at 70% efficiency.
An Audi RS2 Turbo is a k26 even thought it's part # is listed as a k24
( people run without issuses 315(stockhp)-360hp chipped).
53249707200
Take note 72%
IT's the most efficient compressor wheel KKK has ever produced. in the k2 series.
It's map can be found here:
http://www.audicoupe.de/modules.php?...eq=getit&lid=1
Basically I wanted to point out.
You can push alot of air with any turbo but if it's travels farther out the sweet spot your just pushing alot of hot air.
And that is why the k22-k29etc series is considered outdated.
The compressor wheels on new turbos such as a K04 found in the Audi TT 225hp has a 74% efficient compressor wheel.
You can push 34lbs/min, or whatever the amount you want. But if your cold side compressor wheel is running at 60% efficiency thats 40% of hot air and no intercooler will solve that problem.
Simply put:
Quality not quanity.
Think about it guys.
That being said I will most likely be building a hybrid turbo. k26/to4E
#6 or #8 I haven't decided upon yet. 40,57,60 trim etc.. I haven't decided yet either.
BTw.. If you have pics of K26 944 turbos. Particularly where the oil and water lines attach it would be appreicated if you posted them.
Cheers
Josh
There are plenty of fellow audi friends of mine who can comment on this also. I am just a hobbiest, but I do love my hobby and I know a good amount about it.
I have been searching for porsche KKK turbo pictures, maps and info in general. I am building an audi coupe quattro with a 20vT. Basically the same as an Audi S2 found in europe. The Turbo found on an aby 20v 5cylinder motor is a k24. The Turbo found on a RS2 is a k26 and the famed audi sport quattro came with a k27. ALL these motors are 2.2L btw.
I most likely will be building a turbo probably in the next month or so. Or having some one like majestic build me a turbo based on my specs.
Basically I wanted to mention is lack of commenting on The compressor wheel efficiency.
Reading KKK warner parts #s.
Let's pick the later model 944 k26 with the 8# hot side.
53269707042
Brake it down 53-26-970-70-42
The 26 refers to k26 and the 70 refers to it's efficiency. IT basically maxes out at 70% efficiency.
An Audi RS2 Turbo is a k26 even thought it's part # is listed as a k24
( people run without issuses 315(stockhp)-360hp chipped).
53249707200
Take note 72%
IT's the most efficient compressor wheel KKK has ever produced. in the k2 series.
It's map can be found here:
http://www.audicoupe.de/modules.php?...eq=getit&lid=1
Basically I wanted to point out.
You can push alot of air with any turbo but if it's travels farther out the sweet spot your just pushing alot of hot air.
And that is why the k22-k29etc series is considered outdated.
The compressor wheels on new turbos such as a K04 found in the Audi TT 225hp has a 74% efficient compressor wheel.
You can push 34lbs/min, or whatever the amount you want. But if your cold side compressor wheel is running at 60% efficiency thats 40% of hot air and no intercooler will solve that problem.
Simply put:
Quality not quanity.
Think about it guys.
That being said I will most likely be building a hybrid turbo. k26/to4E
#6 or #8 I haven't decided upon yet. 40,57,60 trim etc.. I haven't decided yet either.
BTw.. If you have pics of K26 944 turbos. Particularly where the oil and water lines attach it would be appreicated if you posted them.
Cheers
Josh
There are plenty of fellow audi friends of mine who can comment on this also. I am just a hobbiest, but I do love my hobby and I know a good amount about it.
12-19-2003 | 07:46 PM
#40
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you can see pics of a k26/k27 updated Turbo with oil lines water lines etc here
http://www-public.tu-bs.de:8080/~y0003315/951pics.html
Konstantin
http://www-public.tu-bs.de:8080/~y0003315/951pics.html
Konstantin
Last edited by Konstantin; 12-19-2003 at 08:06 PM.
11-05-2021 | 06:45 AM
#42
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K27 size
From the information and mesuring i did last year.
A k26 is equivalent to a T3/50 trim
First by the actual size of the compressor wheel.
Second by comparing the mapsT3-50 Trim
And a K27, if we just look at the maps. Its Garrett equivalent would be closer to a T04E-40 Trim
But that just from comparing both K27 & T04E-40 Map at a few places.
Like 2.0 PR & 0.2 (20) flow they both end up arround the middle of the max efficiancy. Or like at 3.0PR & 0.3 (30) flow the T04E-40 out flow the K27 by 5% effic.
So Even a T04E-40 out flow the K27.
Does anybody have the actual size of the K27 compressor wheel? That way we could compare its actual size to the Garrett wheels.
But that just my fast conclusion.
A k26 is equivalent to a T3/50 trim
First by the actual size of the compressor wheel.
Second by comparing the mapsT3-50 Trim
And a K27, if we just look at the maps. Its Garrett equivalent would be closer to a T04E-40 Trim
But that just from comparing both K27 & T04E-40 Map at a few places.
Like 2.0 PR & 0.2 (20) flow they both end up arround the middle of the max efficiancy. Or like at 3.0PR & 0.3 (30) flow the T04E-40 out flow the K27 by 5% effic.
So Even a T04E-40 out flow the K27.
Does anybody have the actual size of the K27 compressor wheel? That way we could compare its actual size to the Garrett wheels.
But that just my fast conclusion.
05-14-2022 | 11:38 PM
#43
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I didn't think that compressor maps were available for the KKK K26 and K27 turbos used by Porsche, but I tracked down a reference to the April 1993 issue of Excellence. Andrew (Turbo944) was able to find the issue in his basement and scan in the article and compressor maps. 
He has kindly posted the entire article here:
Page 1
Page 2
Page 3
The K26 compressor used by Porsche (KKK 2670 GGA) is bigger than I had thought, with a maximum airflow of about 35 lb/min (500 cfm) and capable of a pressure ratio of about 2.7 (25 psi). In theory, it should indeed max. out at about 300 rwhp. The Garrett that is most equivalent is the T04E-40. Major differences are that it spins at a higher rpm to make boost, and it has a much narrower efficiency zone.
The K27 map in the article is the so-called K27.2 used on the 1986-1989 930, not the larger(?) K27-7200 used on the 964T. It is a big compressor, as expected on a 3.3 L turbo engine, with a maximum airflow of about 49 lb/min (715 cfm) and capable of a pressure ratio of 3 (29 psi.) In theory, it should be good for about 375 rwhp. The closest Garrett is the T-58, somewhere between the T04E-60 and the T61.
These maps should help settle some arguments about KKK versus Garrett compressors (no information on hot sides, though.) Thanks again, Andrew!
He has kindly posted the entire article here:Page 1
Page 2
Page 3
The K26 compressor used by Porsche (KKK 2670 GGA) is bigger than I had thought, with a maximum airflow of about 35 lb/min (500 cfm) and capable of a pressure ratio of about 2.7 (25 psi). In theory, it should indeed max. out at about 300 rwhp. The Garrett that is most equivalent is the T04E-40. Major differences are that it spins at a higher rpm to make boost, and it has a much narrower efficiency zone.
The K27 map in the article is the so-called K27.2 used on the 1986-1989 930, not the larger(?) K27-7200 used on the 964T. It is a big compressor, as expected on a 3.3 L turbo engine, with a maximum airflow of about 49 lb/min (715 cfm) and capable of a pressure ratio of 3 (29 psi.) In theory, it should be good for about 375 rwhp. The closest Garrett is the T-58, somewhere between the T04E-60 and the T61.
These maps should help settle some arguments about KKK versus Garrett compressors (no information on hot sides, though.) Thanks again, Andrew!
DNS_PROBE_POSSIBLE"
could you please repost those ? Thanks
05-15-2022 | 05:26 PM
#44
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From: Australia
You do know this thread is almost 20 years old not to mention the turbo technology also.
