Eyal 951

well, everyone has their own fancies, I like working on the car too, with my limited, but ever so growing knowlegde. Maybe once you have that thing on the road, you might feel otherwise? Of course you could go all out and continuously tinker untill you have a car rivaling DFASTEST951's car.... hmmm...
~Eyal

Matt H

You could but I would never spend that kind of money on a 951. I would learn how to do it all myself before I spent that much. We had plans of converting to 2.8L but I dont know if I will keep it long enough to make that worthwhile. I am trying to find a 968 shell to move the 951 running gear into. Then I could take the 951 shell and head to the track.
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potent951turbo

People who say that low-priced ones have problems are just people who have never bought one, they are re-telling what they heard.
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Matt H

I think I know a thing or two about 951's considering I have bought low priced ones in the past and have had experience with them.

Matt H

What problems did you have, if I might ask.
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ACG

Guess I was lucky when I bought my 951 last year for $6000.

103,000 miles, completely stock, had 3 previous owners (one of them was the PCA President of the region).

The PO needed to sell it quick because he did an impulse buy on a MR2, and he did not want to have to pay insurance on 2 cars.

It is not cosmetically perfect, but it is mechanically sound. The only problem was a broken exhaust stud, but it has not posed a problem even now. (I am still running the car with the broken exhaust stud. The exhaust leak disappears when the engine warms up). Here is a link to the great advice I received from fellow Pelicaners when I was thinking about buying the car:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/show...light=andrewgoh

Of course, I chipped out another $1,200 after the purchase to change the timing belt.

PorscheDoc

Matt,
Well i have potents old 86, it was cheap, and yes, as he said the repairs are not cheap and they add up quick. I do all the work myself and still have around 500 bucks in parts into it since august. And that is just maintenance stuff. There is still a lot to do to get it where i want it..and i am not talking any performance add ons or anything, its thinkgs like hatch seals, sunroof seals, front bushings, washer pump, mysterious oil leak, and the list goes on. I like working on these cars, but i have put a lot of hours into it, so any labor you can't do will be high as well. He did a lot of work to it before i ever got it also, so just parts alone in the last year i am sure is quite high.


Oh and it isn't like this is an abused 951, the stuff is just 17 years old and wears out after time, and being driven in all conditions, and has to be replaced to keep it on the road. It has 150k on it. You can definitely tell the difference with one that has been garaged all it's life and never driven in the rain.

Karl

potent951turbo

Nicely put Karl! Yes Karl has my old 951 and I put thousands of dollars into that car to save it from the ruins. And as you can see it is still not done to this day, but its nice to see it hasnt gone out of service. It seemed that every week it was something else with that car. Even the 951 I spent almost 7k on has had some big issues. The car was a very well maintained car and had also had tons of money poored into it by the PO, and yet I still find my self putting more money into just repairing old tired parts.

Matt H

None of the things you have mentioned add up to much. That doesnt even answer my question, what problems did you have?

Matt,
Well i have potents old 86, it was cheap, and yes, as he said the repairs are not cheap and they add up quick. I do all the work myself and still have around 500 bucks in parts into it since august

Karl - I have had a number of 944s. Most of the repairs you have listed are on the order of not even of interest to me. If those are the biggest problems you have had with a 17 yr old 150K mile car you should have no complaints.

I want to know what real problems the car has had, a few seals and bushings do not justify buying one for 3 times the amount or even double, or in most cases any amount over "cheap" at all.
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PorscheDoc

500 bucks in parts alone in oh....aug, sep, oct, nov....4 months is fairly substantial maintenance. Like is said, this is not including labor. Here is a list of what i have replaced.
Brake lines 70 bucks
Starter rebuild 100 bucks
Reference sensor 100 bucks
Power stearing adj bar, 40 bucks
Vacuum lines 115 bucks
Coolant tank 50 bucks
Door handle mechanism repair 60 bucks
Sunroof latch 20 bucks
brake res. cap 20 bucks
Alt. belt 15 bucks
Short fuel line 60 bucks.....the other 2 need to be done...another 80 bucks
DME relay 20 bucks
Oil pressure sending unit...used 25 bucks
Injector seals 15 bucks
Intake manifold gaskets 8 bucks
Brake pressure regulator 70 bucks

This is what colin had listed as done recently:
Clutch, Heater control valve, Oil cooler seals, thermostat, Front seals, timing belts, motor mounts, Rod bearings, oil pan gasket, Exhaust man. gasket, Upper radiator hose, rear wheel bearings, brake pads, starter wire.

The point i am making, is it is the little items that add up quickly. I was thinking 500 off the top of my head, but now seeing them listed, the price was a bit higher than that. Now add up the cost of what colin said was done recently. Pretty high maintenance for a car that books for about 6 grand. Not complaining, but if you can barely afford to buy the car, there is no way you will afford to keep it on the road.

Karl

potent951turbo

Matt H, I guess everyone should go through you to find cars since everyone you have owned is gem no matter how cheap you bought it. All we are saying is that for someone who can barely buy the car to begin with it might not be the best choice. The parts cost a ton of money and if you don't know how to work on them then your wallet is going to get lighter by the day. The cars are getting older and older and usually are bound to need some things replaced that can cost 5 times what it costs for any other car. For someone to just by this car with every penny they have scraped up could end in thousands of dollars being spent to keep it on the road. No hard feelings but as for a majority of lower priced Porsche's, the price reflects the condition. Sure there is always some out there that will be a winner, but this is usually not the case, and thats why most 951's are up above 6k+

Matt H

Karl - those are maintenance items, most would probably have to have been done on any car. It has nothing to do with what you paid for it. If either of you care to read I would like to quote my original post to *this* poster
Still a great deal. However, if you are 1400 short of the buying price you will probably not be able to take care of the things it is going to need later.
Potent- I bought my wife's 540 for 1/2 of its value (no, not with a salvage title), it cost me 350 dollars for a radiator. You can ask the listers that have been in it if there is anything wrong with it.

What you guys are implying is, if you pay more for a car you wont need those items. You are buying a 17 year old car, usually with high mileage (though for the most part mileage is irrelevant on these cars), nothing on that list is more than maintenance or wearable items. Any used car with unknown history can nickel and dime you to death and these are no exception.
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PorscheDoc

Matt,
The point i am trying to make is that people who ask more for their vehicles usually know they don't need a lot of things done to them to keep them going. Those that know a lot is wrong with their cars will sell them at a lower price, because they know that anyone who is at all mechanically inclined will look at it and see that these things need to be replaced. So what i am implying is that you are less likely to dump money into a higher priced vehicle. Again, sometimes people ask too much for their vehicles and you still get screwed...it comes with the territory of buying a car. Sometimes you find a car for an incredible deal from some old lady who's husband died and just wants to get rid of his brand new truck and doesnt care what she gets for it, but that doesnt happen very often. Find me a 540 right now from someone who is asking 1/2 it's value...guess what you probably can't, because you somehow lucked out and got a great deal (and thats great by the way, congrats), and while this does happen once in a while, it is one that will not come along 95% of the time. Also your 540 is a 1995 model? Yea, my 93 truck doesn't need anything but gas and and oil change once in a while either because it is a lot newer, the technology to make the parts was better, things hold up a lot better today then they did 20 years ago (the vacuum lines on my truck are so flexible and look so new, i don't see them getting hard and brittle in 7 years, like they were on the porsche...i could snap those babies in half like twigs). So when i havent put even $100 in parts into my truck in the last 2 years, (there are not even any maintenance items it needs, and it has 140k on the clock as well), but the previously talked about amount went into my porsche, guess what...that seems like high maintenance to me, again on a car that books so low.

Your quote was...
Originally posted by Matt H
"People who say that low-priced ones have problems are just people who have never bought one, they are re-telling what they heard."

I am just saying that i did buy a low priced one (3500) and it does have lots of maintenance items that add up very quickly just to keep it on the road. So i am not just re-telling what i heard, just tossing out my experiences for those looking at buying a 951. Maybe you are bringing in $200k a year, i don't know, but i am not a doctor yet, so these things that add up seem like a lot more to me i guess, and i am sure they add up to most of the other guys on this list as well. And again, i am not complaining about the maintinence on my car, it doesn't bother me, i knew it when i bought the car (its a great hobby and thats why i bought it), but again for people who can barely scrap the money together for the car, they more than likely will not be able to keep up with the maintenance. Some of those things are regular maintenance items, others i have never had to replace on any of the vehicles i have owned, or know of anyone who has had to replace things like...brake lines, brake pressure regulators, coolant tanks, fixing door mechanisms, oil pressure sending units, fuel lines etc....general maintenance to me seems like, oil, filters, seals, gaskets, and occasional starter or alternator, battery, tires, etc.

Anyway, guess our opinions just differ and thats cool i guess Not trying to be an *** or anything, sorry if i came off as one. Take it easy. Off to more studying

karl

Matt H

Karl - I understand you. I have no problems with you either. I have a problem with the assertion that if you pay more you get more. Having looked at hundreds of these cars I just dont think that holds to be true. I think on the whole, in general, say 100K cars you are right on. You probably do get what you pay for. I dont make 200K either (not that it matters but about 1/2 that, then again at least half of that belongs to student loan companies :>)) nevertheless I do believe in a good deal. Yes, my BMW is a 95 but it has 168K miles on it. And newer doesnt mean better, do a search for E34 540 and you will find the engine problems that BMW had. Mine had a new engine installed under warranty in 1996 and again in 1999 (they didnt know what the problem was in 96 but they had it figured out by 99).

I agree that if you cannot afford the purchase price you will be in serious trouble when it breaks. I wasnt trying to be an *** either. Just trying to point out that you can get a good deal on one and that more expensive (especially with these, unless purchased here or through PCA, or the like) does not mean you are getting a better car. My first one, a 85.5 NA, I paid a little over 5K for it in 1996, it had 86K on it. It was a giant POS compared to the one I have now (87 951) that has 195K on it.

I guess what I am saying is you can buy very good, very cheap examples if you are willing to purchase whenever the deal comes along and if you are not particular about color. I always set aside at least 20% to fix the things that I dont like about a car BTW.

Lastly, I love the color of yours.
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potent951turbo

Well bottom line is I have also looked at hundreds of these cars and I think owning four of them in the last two years tends to show you many different aspects of the car. Im not saying that you can't find good deals either but usually cars in the higher price ranges tend to show why they are up there and cars in the lower price ranges tend to show why they cost less. Now if you get on the subject of BMW's, I don't really consider even bringing those up for discussion since they are basically bullet proof, having owned 4 of them and currently owning an E36 325is. BMW's just dont break, I have had two E30's, 325i and a 325is, and two E36's, 325i and my current 325is. They are great cars and just keep on running no matter how they are driven. Now on the other hand I have bought both high and low priced 944's, and they both show why they were priced the way they were. I also am not trying to be a jerk but I am just reflecting on my own experiences and not what I heard from others. I do agree Matt H if you cant afford the price then you will definately be hurting when something breaks down the road.

Karl- keep taking care of my car

Matt H

Out of curiosity why have you owned 4 in 2 years? Were you trying to get the right color and settled? Just find a nicer one or something?

I was just saying that I have looked at plenty of high-priced ones that were not even close to as nice as some of the low-priced ones.

At any rate I think we are all on the same page now.
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