jwl should be able to shed some light on the stage II kit from Vitesse in another couple of months after he gets the break in mileage done. He is planning on running 15 psi on pump gas(93 octane). Once he has the software voltages, fuel pump pressure, etc set up for A/F ratio of around 12.3 on boost he said he was going to the dyno. I'm just guessing but I would "guesstimate" 315-325 rwhp???

 

In life, we come across many people that falls under few categories...

There are always the ones that have more $$$ than sense (or at least think they have $). They think that an expensive product is a good product. Basically, an ego trip... all talk.. The good old method, keep throwing money at it till you fix it...

There are the ones that are truly clueless, yet they think they know it, but in reality they have no idea..

And then there are the ones that figured it out and made it happen...

Some people, again, go talking about something they have not seen or experienced.. But then again, what else to expect from them... Kind of funny actually. By the way, I'm still waiting to see those dyno charts that we keep hearing about.. But please group them in chronological order, as they will be the only charts that increase HP/TQ by the day, with the same boost level...
But then again, no need to worry, I don't expect to see any dyno charts, as I never expected them way back LOL...

I love this list... so many interesting characters...

By the way, no need to respond to this message... I had my weekly dose of humor, now I'll be going to make few "Glory Runs"..

Let's see, I didn't address anyone by name, but I'm sure everyone knows who I'm talking about.. Makes you wonder why you figured it out..

 

I was just trying to be helpful... not start a war.....

 

wow

 

Fast951,

Is it accurate to say that the $3200 kit will make 400hp to the wheels on a 2.5 liter motor? The website says the kit is not designed for peak numbers, and I did not see any claim on the website about making 400hp. The website does say this is for track cars, so would I be right to think this level of output requires racing gas and perhaps a shorter engine-life and/or is otherwise not suitable for a street car?

 

Fast951,

I've heard a lot of good things about your kits and so far they are at/near the top of my wish list. I'm sorry if you've already posted this and I missed it, but I think a lot of people (me) would truely appreciate performance data from your kit (stage 2) at around 15 or 16 psi with normal mods (exhaust, etc.). Are they in-line with Brett's (see above) estimates?

To those that constantly rag on these types of kits: although experimenting on your own can be more fulfilling, I can see a real advantage to buying a "kit" with many of the bugs worked out, not to mention the support that comes with it, plus it really cuts down on the intimidation factor. I'm not yet sure which of these options will suit me best.

Thanks

 

>>>In life, we come across many people that falls under few categories...<<<

Uh Oh..... wonder how bad I classify as :-)

hehehe

TonyG

 

i doubt you could get 400 rwhp for 3200.00 and not seriously cut the life of the motor....when i buy my turbo and finish out some other fine points i will be in the upper 300's range....oh yeah at that time i will have 8+ grand in just the hp side of the car....so for 4 grand dont expect to get 400 hp unless you wanna run 28 psi........as for myself....i went with www.lindseyracing.com dave and mike are great .....they give real help and have always been there for me.....i am forever a happy customer.....iv'e so far spent 4k with them(my trip to their shop in june) you can read my mods below.....they did all of the work and it is top notch....it idles great,my midrange power is strong and comfortable for daily use, and oh yeah i almost forgot i hand c5's there asses everyday on the tollway while enjoying the sound of clapton string his guitar.call dave up you wont be diapointed

 

Ben Z. if your ever in the chicago area shoot me an e-mail and you are more than welcome to drive my car. It has the stage 2 kit. I Jump in and drive. I have no tuning problems and back that up with my wideband o2.
the kit is trouble free and fast as heck..

 

Sweet man, I'll remember that! Thanks.

 

Tom ,
As stated on the website, Stage 1,2 and 3 are for the 2.5L.
Yes Stage 3 will make 400+rwhp (see dyno charts). It is race only as it's designed to run in the 3700+ RPM, and yes it's designed to run on race gas.
Stage 1 & 2 can be run on pump gas (15psi max on 93 octane). Stage 3 is not for the street!
Not saying anything new here, all info on the website!

Ben,
Thank you for the kind remark. You are correct, there is a fun factor in figuring things out on your own.
However, you must know what you are doing, and it's risky..
All of my dyno charts were destroyed by a virus. Customers have their own charts at different boost levels.. I'm sure someone will post them at some point.
Have you ever heard of any Vitesse customer complain about the lack of power their car has? About the service? The product? Well, the answer to those questions should be a good indication of the products and the company...


porshhhh951,
You are correct, the more power you extract of an engine the more wear and tear you will add. This is with any performance modification, including chips, $8000 mods... So no news here!
As needing to run 28psi boost to get 400rwhp, well is this based on an experience or just a guess?
Great that you are happy with your products, everyone should be.. Perhaps, you can post some of your dyno charts and the boost levels..


ALL,
Vitesse products are not for everyone. I'm not surprised that certain individuals keep trying to put them down.
The important thing for me is for my customers to be happy with their products. Why is it, that people that have never used the products are the only ones that try to put down Vitesse...
Again, customers that are using the products are the ones that praise Vitesse????

 

Having never bought anything from Vitesse (and very few tuners actually, I tend to source my own and ask the necessary questions), I can say this, tuners like Vitesse offer an important service. You might be able to do it for less, or maybe even a little better but it takes experimentation, time, money, risk. Buying a kit from a tuner usually makes life much easier for the purchasing party. Tuners have come a long way since I had my first 944, none of the "packages" or "kits" really existed. People like John Anderson, Tim @ SFR, TonyG, and some of the older listers just experimented until they got it right.

From experience now, fast951 and turbotim and tonyg have all offered me great advise, and I have always appreciated what they have to say. TonyG can be blunt but some people require that. I cant count the number of times he has answered the same question, most of would have said F it, I am not answering that again. Tim has been helpful on the phone even when I didnt order parts from him (I did go close to the 1K mark this year :>)!!!!!!!!!). John at vitesse has answered a number of my question though I have not had the pleasure to order from him (the time may be coming once I give the ARC-2 a try). As far as Lindsey, they have never returned one of my calls or emails. I may be the only one, but they are only 3 hours from me and I wont buy from them for this reason.

For the tuners: The number one reason people "quit" you as customers is rude or indifferent service. Not price, not product offerings, not availability, customer service. PM me if you would like to see the 5 million dollar survey from Deloitte stating the obvious!
__________________
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Well said John and Kudos Matt.

I've been looking over turbos and kits for the last couple of years now waiting for my road course driving skills to surpass the ability of my car (on the track of course). I haven't been tire kicking, collecting change from my couch, or skipping lunch a few times a week until I could afford a kit and I've resisted the urge to go with the latest and greatest "Guru" set-up to see what people have to say about the kits on the market. I've yet to hear one complaint from a Vitesse customer. NOT ONE! As far as I'm concerned that says a lot to me and most of you who know me personally know that I am a VERY demanding customer and a real ******* if I don't get what I expect or was promised. If I had dollar for every time I heard someone jump on a bandwagon and recommend a kit that is either unproven or in some cases not developed (Guru 364 ring a bell) I'd be a driving a 959. John is right in saying that everyone is not a Vitesse customer. What John is offering is a product that will compete with ANY KIT on the market for a reasonable price. He's offering it to/for people who don't want to try something new every few weeks or have to invest 25K in their cars to squeeze out another 35HP over his kit. If you haven't spoke with John yet I suggest you give him a call and talk shop with him (as long as your not kicking tires). He's an engineer by trade and a straight shooter.

If you look on any website and believe that you can get 400+RWHP out of a 951 for less then 4K on pump gas and 15psi you need to have your head examined or hit with a hammer. Our motors are not that advanced and requires significant improvements in the turbo, combustion chamber, engine management, and flow efficiencies. Tony G's car is a good example of what I mean and he seems to have some great insight as to what it takes to get there. I've looked over the dyno charts posted and driven cars with various other kits and one thing I will say about John's kits is they seem to provide the most HP under the curve. Many seem to be giving John a bunch of **** because his peak power numbers are at boost levels above 16psi. Show me some of the other kits in his price range that advertise their products at 15 or 16psi? Speedforce, lindsey, technodyne, powerhause, winward?????? Not one of them does so why should John. Yeah, yeah, we can all build our own turbo kits using this housing and that impeller but not all of us have the time or are willing to invest 40K+ and many trial and error hours into a car that that is only worth 10. Some of us (Pauerman for example) that is the best way to do it because they have the time to make it affordable, knowledge to make it function, and patience to see it through. To be honest I'd much rather be on the track then in my garage tweaking my latest mod. I seem to spend so much time working on everyone else's car that I barely have time to wax my own. How many bolt on's or experimentation dollars do you have to go through to find one that works for you or before you're satisfied? In the Vitesse case most of his customers say just one and I like that. At the end of the day most tuners are using the same stuff with minor changes here and there. It's no secret that the TO4E is a popular choice. What separates one tuner from the next is the selection of components (like trim & turbine wheels, hot sides ect.), tuning, and more importantly..............support, support, support.

If you want to break down the Vitesse turbo, measure it and publish it for the world to save a few bucks then go ahead. What you'll lose out on by doing that is support from the designer and a possible warrantee if you screw it up. John makes no bones about what he makes his money on. If John wants to keep his turbo specs to himself to try and recover his development costs then I think he has the right to do it. If you want to give away his work for free to be a bim man on the list then I say shame on you. If your looking for injectors or FPR's Vitesse is NOT the right place for you.

For those of you who say you can't run serious hp without special rods, studs, headgaskets, port work and whatever the next flavor of the month is I say you're full of ****. I can pick a number of 951's in my area that have been running 400RWHP with a stock block, slightly milled and o-ringed head, WF head gasket, stock head studs, no ballast resistors or fancy dancy engine managements or intakes and stock headers. Oh yeah these cars have been on the track and/or street all day, every day for YEARS without going poof. Just because you blew up your car or invested a college fund trying to get there doesn't mean it can't be done.

For those of you guys who are new to the engine building/951/car scene, take everything you read on this board with a grain of salt. I see so many guys that I know on these web boards feeding info like they were on the 951 design team or have been racing these cars for 15 years, while their calling me at home asking about belt tensioning and adjusting their sunroof gears (no one involved in this thread), or at the track arguing on how to adjust a koni yellow, or my personal favorite...... patting themselves on their back because they were able to repair a leaking fuel line with a Mighty clamp and some rubber hose (Remember that one Vic? LOL). Many of these guys have also never been on a racetrack or pushed their cars to the limit other then picking on civics and mustangs. Neither Tony G, Chris Cervelli, John, Tim, Dave, Derrek, Danno, me, or old Mr Porsche himself does it "the right way or the best way" they only do it their way. If there was a "right way" there would only be one kit on the market. In the meantime enjoy your cars, keep the shiny side up, and stop these 3 year old bitching matches........some of are tired of hearing it. Stop knocking someone else's product because your way works better for you.

When I get John's kit installed I'll do various dyno runs and objectively let everyone know my experiences and results. Until then, I say let's listen to the guys who have bought the kit rather then listen to those who want to tell you how they do/did/or heard of doing it better. I've heard that line too many times to pay attention to it.......

 

.... Ditto what Jeremy said.

 

Yeah, what he said!