Does anyone make Supercharger kit for early 16V L-Jet cars?
11-19-2003, 12:17 AM
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Does anyone make Supercharger kit for early 16V L-Jet cars?
I've searched the archives and all I come across is 928Motorsports CIS SC kit which I might say is very impressive and FAST SC kit for the 32V guys. I saw somewhere that Huntley racing was a supercharger place and that DeltaP was making some kind of kit that might be available for the early 928s. I'm getting into this ''mod-mode'' with all the parts i'm looking into buying and trying to find. Isn't there someone out there who has a kit that can be bolted to the 16V L-Jet motor? I'm not worried about resale value, my car has a brand new rebuilt motor with about 250,000 miles left on it so...maybe there is a chance of SC my Weissach.
Thanks,
Cory J.
82 WEISSACH
Thanks,
Cory J.
82 WEISSACH
11-19-2003, 01:59 AM
#2
Cory,
If enough of us pester Murph, with cash I might add...
Something may happen.
None of the SC kits are cheap and Murph is on the low side of the average.
There is hope!
If enough of us pester Murph, with cash I might add...
Something may happen.
None of the SC kits are cheap and Murph is on the low side of the average.
There is hope!
11-19-2003, 02:14 AM
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F-A-S-T has a kit, my car was done with the help of them and Delta P. Just make sure your cars seals are good and your rings are good(do a leak down test). I had a 4-5 pound set up and the car was fine until i tinkered with it and was running about 10-13 psi. And the engine said no more.
Lou
83 928 5speed
Lou
83 928 5speed
11-19-2003, 10:44 AM
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Hey onebad, few questions for you.
1. Did you car ever see a dyno with the blower?
2. Any photos of the install?
3. Did you have an intercooler?
4. Do you have any specs as to what was all installed? ie - injectors, fuel pressure devices, spark plugs etc...
5. Was the rest of your car stock? Exhaust, intake, heads etc...
6. When the motor gave up at the higher boost, what exactly broke? Head gasket, rings, etc...?
1. Did you car ever see a dyno with the blower?
2. Any photos of the install?
3. Did you have an intercooler?
4. Do you have any specs as to what was all installed? ie - injectors, fuel pressure devices, spark plugs etc...
5. Was the rest of your car stock? Exhaust, intake, heads etc...
6. When the motor gave up at the higher boost, what exactly broke? Head gasket, rings, etc...?
11-19-2003, 01:16 PM
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Cory,
Also, there is a ROOTS type blower being tested for your car.
After it is tested and possibly mounted to a high profile rennlisters 1980
it should be available... and VERY EASY TO INSTALL.
GoRideSnow can tell you more of the details.
Also, there is a ROOTS type blower being tested for your car.
After it is tested and possibly mounted to a high profile rennlisters 1980
it should be available... and VERY EASY TO INSTALL.
GoRideSnow can tell you more of the details.
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11-19-2003, 02:53 PM
#8
Drifting
the difficult bits to diy would have to be the mounting bracket/tensioner and crank pulley. after that its just plumbing i say.. and a bit of this and that im sure!
11-19-2003, 03:52 PM
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Seems to me, that the brackets will fit most cars.
A FAST or MURPH bracket will probably fit any s4, GT, GTS.
I *think* the 928 Motorsports bracket, and compressor,
and pretty much the whole kit, will fit on any early s2 US car as well as on a Euro.
The difference is not in the mounting of the supercharger, intercooler, or the plumbing.
The issue is with fuel management.
Without proper fuel management, the car will detonate, and so will the engine!
It's not rocket science, but each FI system has it's own quirks, and ways of dealing
with unexpected things, like boost...
A FAST or MURPH bracket will probably fit any s4, GT, GTS.
I *think* the 928 Motorsports bracket, and compressor,
and pretty much the whole kit, will fit on any early s2 US car as well as on a Euro.
The difference is not in the mounting of the supercharger, intercooler, or the plumbing.
The issue is with fuel management.
Without proper fuel management, the car will detonate, and so will the engine!
It's not rocket science, but each FI system has it's own quirks, and ways of dealing
with unexpected things, like boost...
11-19-2003, 10:54 PM
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Hey all, I'm leaning more towards a Centrifugal... I don't want to get rid of that new EURO intake system i'm getting. Plus, the Centrifigual setup would be better for all range power. I don't want just low end grunt...but a lil more top end at that. I'm curious to know what FAST has up their sleeves in the 16V department.
-Lou(Onebad928s), did you have any kind of installation photos and what kind of parts, time, money etcc.. did you have to dish out in order to put it on your car? Also, what was the power increase on your car, do you have any dyno graphs, even some 0-60, 0-100 times will do?
Thanks,
Cory J.
82 Weissach
-Lou(Onebad928s), did you have any kind of installation photos and what kind of parts, time, money etcc.. did you have to dish out in order to put it on your car? Also, what was the power increase on your car, do you have any dyno graphs, even some 0-60, 0-100 times will do?
Thanks,
Cory J.
82 Weissach
11-20-2003, 01:42 AM
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Originally posted by onebad928s
F-A-S-T has a kit, my car was done with the help of them and Delta P. Just make sure your cars seals are good and your rings are good(do a leak down test). I had a 4-5 pound set up and the car was fine until i tinkered with it and was running about 10-13 psi. And the engine said no more.
Lou
83 928 5speed
F-A-S-T has a kit, my car was done with the help of them and Delta P. Just make sure your cars seals are good and your rings are good(do a leak down test). I had a 4-5 pound set up and the car was fine until i tinkered with it and was running about 10-13 psi. And the engine said no more.
Lou
83 928 5speed
I think you hit the area of boost (10-13psi) that brings up a lot of issues with forced induction and unless the requirements have been defined and addressed I would expect you to have problems, BTDT!! My plan is to take a 16 valve car and run 8lbs of boost, intercooled. At the same time I will be installing the appropriate feedback devices to monitor what is actually going on with the engine, ie; EGT, O2, Fuel PSI, injector pulse, ect. I think it can be done safely and if you have all the right things in place there should be no issues at all with running boost in these cars. I can't promote that I will have a kit for these cars until I actually do it and it proves to be successful but I guess it is at least ok to let people know my intentions. I will be very open and honest with this venture and will post to the board when I do this and you can all live and/or die with me on the results. I expect it to work out very well though, or I wouln't even try.
11-20-2003, 02:05 AM
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Cory and Tim,
On the 84 the engine was fresh with about 10g on it and it was a automatic.I had new fuel regulators and injectors(stock)with the Vortech FMU 8:1, No smog pump or cat (test pipe to borla cat back system).The original kit was purchased from Projekt 928 but there was a problem between me and that guy and what parts did and didnt come, Delta P (chris) helped me out as much as he could since it was his brackets and pulleys. F-A-S-T (mark) helped me out with the parts i was missing. It seems i was the first to get a kit from any of these guys since i had the 16v non CIS. I ran the 4-5 pound boost set up as recommended by F-A-S-T but didnt notice much of a power gain so i gave Projekt 928 a call since i was on better terms with him at the time and he sent me his pulley for the SC that he was running on a finished 16v. The most i got it up to was about 11 pounds of boost at about 5500 rpms and then the smoke poured from the exhaust.After that oil kept coming out from the filler neck(installed a catch can) so i had a leak down test done. 40% blow by on 1 cylinder alone.So i knew the rings went. I talked to my mechanic about redoing the engine and to do it stock would have been $5g or to build it for the SC $7G. I chose the car wasnt worth it and sold it to Tarek (rennlist member) and bought a 83 928 5speed. Theres a guy i believe goes by the name Capt N Carl that has and races with a SC on his earlier 928 (CIS) and sells complete kits. If i find his web page i will post it.
Lou
83 928 5speed
On the 84 the engine was fresh with about 10g on it and it was a automatic.I had new fuel regulators and injectors(stock)with the Vortech FMU 8:1, No smog pump or cat (test pipe to borla cat back system).The original kit was purchased from Projekt 928 but there was a problem between me and that guy and what parts did and didnt come, Delta P (chris) helped me out as much as he could since it was his brackets and pulleys. F-A-S-T (mark) helped me out with the parts i was missing. It seems i was the first to get a kit from any of these guys since i had the 16v non CIS. I ran the 4-5 pound boost set up as recommended by F-A-S-T but didnt notice much of a power gain so i gave Projekt 928 a call since i was on better terms with him at the time and he sent me his pulley for the SC that he was running on a finished 16v. The most i got it up to was about 11 pounds of boost at about 5500 rpms and then the smoke poured from the exhaust.After that oil kept coming out from the filler neck(installed a catch can) so i had a leak down test done. 40% blow by on 1 cylinder alone.So i knew the rings went. I talked to my mechanic about redoing the engine and to do it stock would have been $5g or to build it for the SC $7G. I chose the car wasnt worth it and sold it to Tarek (rennlist member) and bought a 83 928 5speed. Theres a guy i believe goes by the name Capt N Carl that has and races with a SC on his earlier 928 (CIS) and sells complete kits. If i find his web page i will post it.
Lou
83 928 5speed
11-20-2003, 02:08 AM
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It occurs to me that a 2 valve S2 would be a bolt-up situation for Tim's blower kit, as long as the boost was kept down to 7 psi, considering the lack of knock management and the 10.4-1 compression.
Earlier cars would work as well, but I don't know how to make the mixture richer with the flap-type air flow sensor. I guess this part could be modified, and rising rate fuel pressure regulators could cover the increased fuel need.
CIS? Find a boost-sensitive control pressure regulator from the hottest Audi you can imagine and pray that it works! The early 911 turbos were CIS as well- perhaps they have a CP regulator that can increase fuel flow enough to cover your boost.
In any case, in my opinion, if you go over 7 psi on an engine built for natural aspiration then you are a TEST PILOT-
Hope you [and your pistons] live!
7 vs 8 psi? Corky Bell's book on turbocharging discusses a turbocharged Acura NSX with 10.2-1 compression. In this book, he states that 5 psi is all that this situation can handle...and this is a hemispherical head engine and our 2 valves arent...so actually, 7 psi might be a stretch......
I'm not a big fan of big boost!
Normy!
'85 S2 5 Speed
Earlier cars would work as well, but I don't know how to make the mixture richer with the flap-type air flow sensor. I guess this part could be modified, and rising rate fuel pressure regulators could cover the increased fuel need.
CIS? Find a boost-sensitive control pressure regulator from the hottest Audi you can imagine and pray that it works! The early 911 turbos were CIS as well- perhaps they have a CP regulator that can increase fuel flow enough to cover your boost.
In any case, in my opinion, if you go over 7 psi on an engine built for natural aspiration then you are a TEST PILOT-
Hope you [and your pistons] live!
7 vs 8 psi? Corky Bell's book on turbocharging discusses a turbocharged Acura NSX with 10.2-1 compression. In this book, he states that 5 psi is all that this situation can handle...and this is a hemispherical head engine and our 2 valves arent...so actually, 7 psi might be a stretch......
I'm not a big fan of big boost!
Normy!
'85 S2 5 Speed
11-20-2003, 02:11 AM
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Cory and Tim,
On the 84 the engine was fresh with about 10g on it and it was a automatic.I had new fuel regulators and injectors(stock)with the Vortech FMU 8:1, No smog pump or cat (test pipe to borla cat back system).The original kit was purchased from Projekt 928 but there was a problem between me and that guy and what parts did and didnt come, Delta P (chris) helped me out as much as he could since it was his brackets and pulleys. F-A-S-T (mark) helped me out with the parts i was missing. It seems i was the first to get a kit from any of these guys since i had the 16v non CIS. I ran the 4-5 pound boost set up as recommended by F-A-S-T but didnt notice much of a power gain so i gave Projekt 928 a call since i was on better terms with him at the time and he sent me his pulley for the SC that he was running on a finished 16v. The most i got it up to was about 11 pounds of boost at about 5500 rpms and then the smoke poured from the exhaust.After that oil kept coming out from the filler neck(installed a catch can) so i had a leak down test done. 40% blow by on 1 cylinder alone.So i knew the rings went. I talked to my mechanic about redoing the engine and to do it stock would have been $5g or to build it for the SC $7G. I chose the car wasnt worth it and sold it to Tarek (rennlist member) and bought a 83 928 5speed. Theres a guy i believe goes by the name Capt N Carl that has and races with a SC on his earlier 928 (CIS) and sells complete kits. If i find his web page i will post it. http://928motorsports.com/
Lou
83 928 5speed
On the 84 the engine was fresh with about 10g on it and it was a automatic.I had new fuel regulators and injectors(stock)with the Vortech FMU 8:1, No smog pump or cat (test pipe to borla cat back system).The original kit was purchased from Projekt 928 but there was a problem between me and that guy and what parts did and didnt come, Delta P (chris) helped me out as much as he could since it was his brackets and pulleys. F-A-S-T (mark) helped me out with the parts i was missing. It seems i was the first to get a kit from any of these guys since i had the 16v non CIS. I ran the 4-5 pound boost set up as recommended by F-A-S-T but didnt notice much of a power gain so i gave Projekt 928 a call since i was on better terms with him at the time and he sent me his pulley for the SC that he was running on a finished 16v. The most i got it up to was about 11 pounds of boost at about 5500 rpms and then the smoke poured from the exhaust.After that oil kept coming out from the filler neck(installed a catch can) so i had a leak down test done. 40% blow by on 1 cylinder alone.So i knew the rings went. I talked to my mechanic about redoing the engine and to do it stock would have been $5g or to build it for the SC $7G. I chose the car wasnt worth it and sold it to Tarek (rennlist member) and bought a 83 928 5speed. Theres a guy i believe goes by the name Capt N Carl that has and races with a SC on his earlier 928 (CIS) and sells complete kits. If i find his web page i will post it. http://928motorsports.com/
Lou
83 928 5speed
11-20-2003, 02:28 AM
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Normy,
I'm pretty sure that the combustion chamber temps would be ok at 8psi intercooled. Lag will jump in and give you the exact numbers.
I would venture to guess that Lou experienced a fuel issue that resulted in detonation which not only killed the head gasket but the top rings as well. If you take care of the fuel issue, there should be no detonation and therefore no issues.
BTW, I have personally talked with Corky Bell on supercharging and all I can say is that he is a very nice gentleman to talk with and he is also very interested in what we are doing with our cars. If you have every read his book, "Supercharged" you know he runs by the numbers.
I'm pretty sure that the combustion chamber temps would be ok at 8psi intercooled. Lag will jump in and give you the exact numbers.
I would venture to guess that Lou experienced a fuel issue that resulted in detonation which not only killed the head gasket but the top rings as well. If you take care of the fuel issue, there should be no detonation and therefore no issues.
BTW, I have personally talked with Corky Bell on supercharging and all I can say is that he is a very nice gentleman to talk with and he is also very interested in what we are doing with our cars. If you have every read his book, "Supercharged" you know he runs by the numbers.