Project 89
 

Hello forum I am back.
After 3 year hiatus, lets give thanks to my 91 RHD that sacrificed itself to provide the deposit to buy my home.
I have been wanting a silver 87 that has been sitting for more than 16 years. The papers are lost so its a complete parts car. Finally got a car with ownership for $600. Its an 89, black, sports leather seats, mostly complete interior and mostly straight body. However no transmission, torque tube, exhaust and most of the front engine, radiator.
The plans is to strip the 89, rebuild the interior, clean the body up. In July get the 87, refresh the engine and transmission, rebuild the torque tube, put them into the 89.
I wonder if there will be any compatibility issues.
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlis...3c1c0502f3.jpg

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BTW can anyone tell me how to fix the Rennlist App on iPhone? mine does not work.

The PO cut so many wires. he should be shot and or castrated. The seats came up good. I installed the door cards in hopes of straightening them out.
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlis...381afacf2e.jpg

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlis...052d545e91.jpg

May as well put a manual in it if you are doing all this.

You, my friend, know how to party!

Help! Does anyone know what this harness connected to?
Its from the interior wiring harness not from the engine room.
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On the engines.. get a cheap usb endoscope and look at the pistons in each.. 89 has higher compression and IMO are a much sweeter engine, so worth checking the 87 engine to see if its still got the deeper piston dish.

if so, then use bits from that engine to complete the 89 engine instead.. (I've owned a couple of '87's, and an 89).

Finally got around to the 928 after finishing the Vette.
the owner of the 87 pulled a dick move on me and refuses to sell it to me.
Pulled the intake manifold.
I noticed #1 was missing it's injector when I got the car. This is what I saw.

But it cleaned up not so bad.

I'll put some carb cleaner in next.

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlis...254902d870.jpg

Anyone know how to bypass the oil cooler?

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlis...9c1ff1f1e1.jpg

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If you are referring to the two large black connectors in the first picture, one attaches to the EZK controller and the other to the LH controller.

Project 928
 

I pulled the plugs and oiled the valves and cylinders, I put on the tbelt.

The motor won't complete a revolution. It stops just before 45 degrees. I put a magnet in but nothing came out. Any hints?

put a bore scope in each plug hole to inspect the cylinders ,
good chance a errant blowfish is swimming inside

With a bit more patience, time and daylight I found a screw in #8. Yeah!!! The engine turns quite smoothly with little resistance. this morning: plugs, wires, intake and injectors got done. Next
moe

This is an interesting project! :)

Pull the plugs, put some oil in the cylinders, make sure the engine has oil too and then crank the engine over with the starter for 15-20 sec.

Did you get the ECUs with the car or are they missing?

There is nothing behind the flywheel. No covers, not torque tube, no exhaust. I have an alternator, but no Power steering pump, starter, ac compressor, no radiator, ac condenser.
So Im putting out the call for the above mentioned parts. I could buy a parts car here but i dont want to deal with the $100/month parking and $1000 carcass disposal fee. Just a used transmission here cost $2-5000 so thats a no go.I have been searching Ebay, so if anyone is scraping a 928S4 please let me know.

Financially you are not better off to get a parts car with all the bits you need. Quickly remove what's needed and scrap the rest for a $1000? Shipping all this in and paying for the parts will surpass that $1000 really fast.
In all honesty, this car sounds more like a parts car than one worth saving. Do you have enough Yen to get it on on the road?

That it’s a parts car is true apart from the fact it has papers. Another parts car will cost me $3000 plus $600-1000 in parking plus another $500-$1000 to get rid of the chassis.
After unless 928 parts suddenly skyrocket my calculations are sound.

Contact Herman K via PM to see what he might have that you need. His 928 man cave was destroyed by a tornado and he is selling his 928 stash.

In addition, 928 Intl has historically had a year end 1/2 off sale that begins basically after November 23 until December 25. 928Intl will typically have anything you might need since they are arguably the largest breakers of 928's in the world.

And finally, LA dismantlers MIGHT have anything else you may need that 928 Intl did not have.

Thanks. I need to sell my C4 Corvette before I can start spending.
LAD has nothing. I’m well aware of 928 INT.
I am making some progress on the engine. I’ll get under the car next week to see what’s going on under there. Remove the flywheel to clean rust and replace rear crank seal and clean the suspension.
The master cylinder looks terrible. I’ll pull it and see how bad it is on the inside.

there is an s4 on Craigslist in md for parts. It's black.

I think shipping it to Japan would be cost prohibitive.

I got a $1200 87-S4. It's complete except for front seats, rear spoiler and ecu. Now to wait for the snow to melt.

Let the games begin!! Radiator, ac condenser, exhaust, gas tank all out.
Engine looks in really good condition. No oil leak, painted can covers and intake manifold.

delete

Sorry. No front seats are for sale from the 928.

Too busy today to take pics. Damn that transmission is heavy. Dragging it on loose ground didn't help either. I had to deploy all the wisdom of the ancients cus there was no app for this.
I got the rear ends swapped. The wiring harness on the 87-donor is completely deteriorated. So I need to swap the good harness from the 89. Plus the 89 rdk sensor. What to do with that? Of course all the cv boots are shot, so the left axle nut same off no issue but the left has broken 4 1/2" drives. Fun and games people. Back to work for 4 day before I can touch it

Gotta use a 3/4" drive for those axle nuts. 1/2" drives don't have enough uumph.

just be safe and buy a 1" breaker bar and the socket you need.

https://www.amazon.com/Titan-12049-1-Inch-40-Inch-Breaker/dp/B003OA2J34

Rusted axle nuts are a bear. Spray with PB Blaster


Import it if you have to.

No PB Blaster here. Just domestic stuff which I guess works. My friends shop doesn't have a 3/4 32mm socket so I need to snoop around to find a shop which does and will let me borrow it.
I went to 4 diy stores yesterday and all but the automotive tool shop had the adapter only 1 instock. I bought most of my tools from these shops but I guess not many Japanese like rolling around in the dirt fixing their cars. Lots of tool for construction workers but precious few for the lowly mechanic.

I have a set of 8 way for sale in very nice shape. Vinyl covered in black.

Use 50/50 acetone and atf. The best (4x better than PB blaster) for loosening.

Update. Finally borrowed the 32mm from another shop.
Got a lot done.
Front engine accessories
Exhaust manifold new Looks like that hole was part of the oil pressure system. However it filled in on this engine. It goes nowhere.
Got the ps done, radiator and transmission cooler lines. However 87 and 89 hoses are different. Which is better? Transmission front seal tc and bearing holder are also done, half shafts rebooted and installed.
Next week engine rear main seal, fuel system, I should have the tt bearing sleeves too.

Got a lot done on my holidays. It's all back together mechanically. Now dealing with the electrics. I can't find where this 8 pin plug connects. Any assistance will be greatly appreciated.

that looks like the coding plug look in the WSM for your application for coding plugs,
the part it plugs into should have been clipped into the ECU chassis

Yep looks like the coding plug. Make sure you check the wiring on that connector against the wiring diagram, as well as using the correct coding plug (87/88 is different from 89+ electrically.. will pass unfused current if you use an '89 coding plug in an 87/88 early harness - I found out the hard way and burnt some ground wires through the LH harness).

As Stan notes, the workshop manual has pics of the different coding plug configurations - they're cheap and available from 928 vendors/porsche dealerships, just make sure you order the correct part for your car's config. Looks like you've got a non-cat car as I can see what appears to be the CO adjuster potentiometer next to your ECU, so you'll need the coding plug to match.

Thanks so much for the information. I finally knows what goes there. I ordered the parts.

I found this plug in the car. Guess it's. not the one I need.

Finally got the engine to rotate. Turns out,
I didn't tighten the 13mm nut on the starter.
I found this plug in the engine harness. Since I don't see a harness for the oil pressure switch I can only guess that missing harness plugs in here.

I seem stuck. The engine turns and the cps shows proper resistance, new fuel pump works when I manually close the relay. Guess I should wait for the other relay beside the ecus.
Interior lights and digital instruments don't work.
The headlight motor suddenly won't stop rotating up and eventually hits her ac condenser. It didn't do that before.
Today I cleaned the car and fed the leather.
Gonna try to repair the dash.

Got the dash and interior lights.!!
Redid the timing

I replaced the cps. Now I get fuel pump on when cranking, fuel in the rails but no tach bounce and no spark. The ezk relay closes when cranking. I have power at the coils.
I'll check for power at the injectors this weekend. Is there any reason why the tach won't bounce?
Also cranking kills my battery really fast. I may get 2-3 mins of cranking.

It starts and runs well now. New radiator!! I filled the transmission it engaged gears once then next day nothing. I flushed the atf but still no pumping. I removed the torque converter again clearly it wasn't seated. It seams when I attach the drive flange it pulls the tc forward. And hints ?

I measured the torque converter clearance and reinstalled everything. But still nothing. It appears there is no pump pressure. Only a slight whirring noise can be heard when I shut the engine down.
Any ideas?
I flushed the atf and cleaned the filter. The atf is half full according to the side tank. And the level doesn't change when the engine is running.

Keep pushing bro! This will be a great victory for persistence. Looking forward to seeing the video of that V8 burbling away.

It moved!! After swapping transmissions
No oil leak. It took about 4 cycles of fill, run engine for 10 seconds and it was full. I cycled it through PND 4 times then her rebirth.
I did the victory dance.
Next low:
alternator low charging,
steering rack boots, spark plugs and wires, figure out how to run a 2 post oil pressure switch on a 3 wire system
and clean clean clean.

Finally the dash board.

Big day today.
. Proper new plugs and she fires up right away. Next, wires.
Drove it about 500m from my parking spot to my house.
Today I did: steering rack boots, front brake pads, front steel braided brake hoses, left front strut, that was fun, lots of wire brushing.
The shifter cable is kinked at the guide tube. Research says new cable, but there has got to be a way to repair it. Any ideas?

Cheers,

Great work - having got to the "drive for 500m" stage is huge, given the unknowns and mechanic-butchery you've had to overcome.

Really enjoying the thread.. do you have a to-do list to get to the point of passing inspection? :)

Well. Turns out I had a pristine shifter cable from a 944. So that's done
But I wasn't getting any oil pressure. I swapped the wires and when I removed the switch for cleaning very bad oil came out. And it would stall when hot and wouldn't restart. I got the flywheel back and measured 0.3mm of play on the crank. Now the engine spins much freer but still no oil pressure. But I could feel something from the oil filler cap. I guess it's the thrust bearing.
I have a spare engine from the parts car and so far it turns smoothly and didn't appear to have any end play. So the plan is to do the head gaskets, and valve seals on it, possibly the crank bearings. Trouble is I want to do it at home. I bought an engine stand and will have to borrow a hoist.

that oil looks like thrust bearing failure.

NOTE depending on the miles on the other engine swapping the bearings might not be something to do, but a yes to headgaskets

The spare engine has about 87000km or about 54,000mile. It's from a MY 1988. Should I change the valve seals? If so, can I do it without the special tool? I can borrow a spring compressor but worry about installing the seals.

I got into the spare engine. Oh dear. Broken water pump impeller and an incredibly dirty engine.

is that the impeller thats all crumbled at the pump area if the volute surface is not damaged it may be fine that said the head gaskets are probably ready for renewal

Got a lot of cleaning and right head off today.
Guess the oil pan gasket was leaking.

Here are today's pics

Those valve keepers are a PITA. But I got them done. New valve seals and head gasket done on the right bank. Tomorrow the left gets torn done.

Hi Rufrob! Inspiring work there.

On the block side, the surface of the cylinder head to the block looks good.

On the head-side, the firerings look fine. But are you planning on doing anything about the pitting? It looks quite deep.

Unfortunately I don't plan on doing anything about the pitting. I showed the heads to chief/old mechanic. He doesn't know anyone in Japan who can weld them and so long as the mating surfaces are flat they should be fine. He has seen worst.
I did the left side last week. Still took 4 hour to replace the valve seals and clean the valves and seats.
I put the heads back on, cams as per markings,
I was supposed to take a summer vacation to Okinawa but typhoon 24 cancelled that.
A break in the rain this morning allowed me to strip the top of the original motor and put the car on jack stands. All you guys with your own garages, please remember how fortunate you are.
Next borrow the an engine crane from a neighbor. Do the oil pan gasket on the new motor then swap them. Wonder how long that's going to take me.

The engine crane didn't materialize but a 3 day weekend and good weather did so out the engine came from the bottom. Don't remember the 944 was this hard. The 928 suspension is more difficult to handle.

Here are some pics

Nice work, you've got it tough in a far flung land and without a shop hoist! When there is a will there is a way :)

Cam and ignition timing, oiled pistons&cylinders and cams, vacuum hoses, vinegar soaked and cleaned fuel rails, cleaned and painted injectors, heat resistant painted valve covers( scratched on installation), radiator flushed and cleaned, suspension torqued, spark plugs and ignition wires, fresh oil all done. Engine rotates smoothy, timing marks line up on second rotation
To be done are destroyed power steering low pressure line, crank bolt torque, hall sensor connector, coolant refill.
What am I missing?

Hi Rob,

Is that radiator the Chinese one? I bought one and sent it back and made them build a proper one. They now have modified side tanks that are level with the top of radiator and the fan shroud screws are level with the core like the original. They are built fairly well from the look of the one arrived.

Cheers
Scott

Yes its Chinese. I had to modify the attachments to hold the fans, ie. cut them off.

After swapping the engine, it would start fine and run for about 30 seconds then slowly die, regardless of the amount of throttle. i discovered the front harness blue/green and green/white wires were badly deteriorated. So I swapped harnesses, but the problem persists. Starts fine settles to a idle, then idle keeps dropping to a stall.

I disconnected the Hall and temp sensors. Same condition. Starts then stalls. It's running pig rich. The green diode on the clear relay when it stalls.
Any hints?

check the spark plug wires for proper routing,
keep an eye on the cats if they are glowing red then its dumping lots of unburned fuel into them, so you have an ignition issue,
probably a coil wire shorted out on a piece of metal.
NOTE red hot cats will ignight the body shutz
pull the vacuum lines off the damper and smell for fuel any that are leaking will flood the engine

Green is left bank (5-8 side), so odds are either a coil, coil wire, or possibly ignition amplifier. You can check the ignition amplifier by swapping plugs on it and seeing if the red led goes on instead in the IMS.

Ah - one other thing to check as I made an assumption above.. when you swapped engines, did you also swap the temp sensors for the ignition monitoring system off the 89 engine? 87/88 didn't have them. They screw into M12 threaded ports just below the exhaust outlets at the manifold. They would have been on cylinders 4/8 on the '89 engine, altho factory moved them to 3/7 from 90 onwards (so that's where I'd install them - system is otherwise the same). If you did put them on the earlier engine, I'd also check they're connected properly.

The 89 engine had them removed and I bypassed the ignition relay.
While checking the FPR and tps and cps and distributor I found the coil wire not seated due to wrong connector. Cranked it and it started and didnt stall. Plugged in the MAF and it stalled. Swapped the MAF and it ran better not perfect. Guess the plugs are soaked.

89 temp sensors
 

did you also swap the temp sensors for the ignition monitoring system off the 89 engine? 87/88 didn't have them. They screw into M12 threaded ports just below the exhaust outlets at the manifold. They would have been on cylinders 4/8 on the '89 engine

anyone have pics and or part #'s for these?

Neither cars I had had those components. I simply bypassed the relay to get it running.
What I don't understand is with the bad engine I didn't have the problem and all the components are for the most part the same.
I pulled the plugs this morning, which didn't look too bad. I cleaned and reinstalled them. It no longer stalls but runs only marginally better. Still very rich and or a terrible miss.
I know the wires are weak but again, it ran before.
Now I'm hearing a rattle from the torque tube, which I rebuilt, at low idle.

Interesting - not a Japan car originally then? Or removed? I've got a japanese catalytic converter and spare 87 cluster with the "EX" light that is triggered by sensors on the cat.

Time to bust out the Troubleshooting LH/EZK section of the WSM, in the back of VOlume 1A.

Page D24-9 is the start of the test plan, and you should pretty much go through each of the tests there, although first check 2 items which I don't think that plan covers..

1. The right Coding plug is attached
2. If its a car coded for cats, that the O2 sensor is attached - or if its a non-cat car, or you're using a non-cat coding plug, O2 sensor should not be connected, and instead a bridge between 2 of the pins installed, and also the 1kohm potentiometer attached to the 3-pin Bosch connector in the footwell to provide MAF calibration to an exhaust gas analyser.

Then walk through all the tests and see what passes or not. I would recommend testing at the LH connector, to make sure the issue isn't a short in the wiring which you had to piece back together from a very hacked-up state.

Hi Hilton,
Thanks for the input. It has the proper coding plug. It has cats but the 02 sensor is not connected, but the plug hasn't been bridged.
I think the ignition is the issue since for sure there is fuel.

Correcting the crossed 6&7 wires did it now she starts and idles fine. Next find out what's causing the rattle from the mid rear of the drivetrain. But before that...
While filling the June bought radiator from EBay
Leak!!
The car refuses to get done!!!

Well this is it for the time being. This car as eaten up every spare minute since May.
lets hope the JB Weld holds
This engine sounds a lot better than the other
https://photos.app.goo.gl/dumDKP2RkhzpB3st7

So here it is.
1989 Porsche 928 S4
VIN: WPOZZZ92ZKS841153
98,000km
Black on Black
Sunroof
Leather interior, except dash board
5 litre 32valve motor
4 speed automatic transmission
List of work done:

Engine swap due to thrust bearing failure on original motor
Thrust bearing end flow 0.2mm on used 88 engine #M28/42 81H05845
Timing belt
Water pump
Front cam shaft seals
Front and rear crank shaft seals
Flywheel bolts
Oil pan gasket
Left and right head gaskets
32 valve seals
Timing belt tensioner boot and gaskets
Oil filter
Spark plugs
Low pressure Power steering hose
Alternator clean and voltage regulator check
Cleaned and painted fuel injectors
New front and rear fuel hoses
Air pump delete and head port plugs
Used front wiring harness
Rebuilt MAF sensor
2 new knock sensors
New radiator with atf and engine oil cores
Rebuilt torque tube bearing
Transmission torque converter cover bearings
New transmission fluid hoses
Transmission filter and fluid
Rebuilt instrument cluster wiring hardness
Cleaned CE
Cleaned power window motors and regulators
New steel braided brake hoses
Brake pads and rotors well within specs.
New fuel pump, bypassed in-tank pump
All electrics work except for Air Conditioning.

To make it perfect:
Slight rattle from the torque tube, possibility shifter bearings.
Dent on left front wing near side marker
Rear bumper clear coat peel
Minor dent on left and right rear fenders
Small rust around rear glass
Missing engine under guard
Oil pressure gauge doesn't work due to digital dash/2 prong oil pressure sender incompatibility
ABS light on due to deteriorated wiring connectors

I will try to address some of those issues the longer I have it.
Reason for sale is a change in my career requires me to be away. I won't have time to address the remaining issues.
I really and truly love the 928. But it's not practical for me to keep it.
I have photos and parts receipts of all the work done.
https://photos.google.com/share/AF1Q...F6YUZSNG9FZ2VB

I ended up changing the torque bearings again. While putting it back together the hand cart the trany was on split in two. 500kg capacity my butt. This time every thing went back together by the book. All proper bolts and torque, refilled the tranny. But i could only get 1 forward gear. No bearing noise.
My coolant leak was from a loose heater hose, oil leak from loose oil filter. I ran out of day light so tomorrow I'll wash it and take it back to it's parking spot. This time people are actually bidding on it.
Let hope it reaches the reserve!!

On the road again

https://photos.app.goo.gl/cQgBqMZvny24sv7B9