Time-Sert repair
03-14-2017, 11:43 AM
#1
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Time-Sert repair
Upon removing my Power Steering Pump/Alternator support, I find that one of the bolt threads into the block has been repaired with a Time-Sert. Some how it broke in half and the other half was still threaded in. I easily removed that broken insert by unscrewing it out. So the threads for the insert are still intact. A Time-Sert rep believes that a new insert will solve my problem. (He recommended the SS in lieu of the Carbon Steel insert) A couple guys have suggested that maybe a thin coat of JB Weld around the insert when installing the new one would be beneficial. What do you guys think? Any other thoughts on this?
The marked hole has the insert still threaded in, before I removed it.
Front half of the broken insert after I removed it from the bolt.
Bolt is marked. Could this not be the original bolt? (Original is a M8 w 1.25 pitch)
The marked hole has the insert still threaded in, before I removed it.
Front half of the broken insert after I removed it from the bolt.
Bolt is marked. Could this not be the original bolt? (Original is a M8 w 1.25 pitch)
03-14-2017, 12:41 PM
#2
Team Owner
with these bolts your better off measuring them to find the actual length the hole will accept.
Then fit checking your measurement to be sure the bolt will set into the hole
You can even use a longer bolt thats spaced with a few washers if you cant find a bolt thats long enough with out one, best to trim it down to proper length though.
Rick,from the looks of things the bolt that was installed was too short ,
installing a new timesert may work but your not going to have much material to bite into.
BUT since you have the old piece of time cert ,
I would get a stud and figure out how long it needs to be with the cassette fitted,
and add a washer and nut to confirm the fit, you will also need to account for the alternator attach bracket so make sure the nut /stud will clear this during your fit check.
THEN JB weld the remaining timesert part with the stud into the girdle.
let it cure , then its a simple bolt on affair.
NOTE dont over torque the nut.
NOTE the thicker bolt above the damaged one has a collar to hold the assembly in place.
the girdle doesnt have much metal to play with, so the thinner the hole in the girdle the stronger the surrounding metal will be.
The JB installed stud will be plenty strong,
I have fixed a few of these bolts with studs after finding the threads have been stripped out,
and the holes have been egged by the loose fit precluding adding a thread insert repair due to the egging
The JB weld and new stud fix will be the least drama and give the strongest repair for girdle integrity
NOTE also measure the other bolt , you may be able to fit a longer bolt ,
also check the boss for the air pump/A/C compressor bracket bolt,
this may also be able to made longer.
Then fit checking your measurement to be sure the bolt will set into the hole
You can even use a longer bolt thats spaced with a few washers if you cant find a bolt thats long enough with out one, best to trim it down to proper length though.
Rick,from the looks of things the bolt that was installed was too short ,
installing a new timesert may work but your not going to have much material to bite into.
BUT since you have the old piece of time cert ,
I would get a stud and figure out how long it needs to be with the cassette fitted,
and add a washer and nut to confirm the fit, you will also need to account for the alternator attach bracket so make sure the nut /stud will clear this during your fit check.
THEN JB weld the remaining timesert part with the stud into the girdle.
let it cure , then its a simple bolt on affair.
NOTE dont over torque the nut.
NOTE the thicker bolt above the damaged one has a collar to hold the assembly in place.
the girdle doesnt have much metal to play with, so the thinner the hole in the girdle the stronger the surrounding metal will be.
The JB installed stud will be plenty strong,
I have fixed a few of these bolts with studs after finding the threads have been stripped out,
and the holes have been egged by the loose fit precluding adding a thread insert repair due to the egging
The JB weld and new stud fix will be the least drama and give the strongest repair for girdle integrity
NOTE also measure the other bolt , you may be able to fit a longer bolt ,
also check the boss for the air pump/A/C compressor bracket bolt,
this may also be able to made longer.
03-14-2017, 12:58 PM
#3
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
with these bolts your better off measuring them to find the actual length the hole will accept.
Then fit checking your measurement to be sure the bolt will set into the hole
You can even use a longer bolt thats spaced with a few washers if you cant find a bolt thats long enough with out one, best to trim it down to proper length though.
Rick,from the looks of things the bolt that was installed was too short ,
installing a new timesert may work but your not going to have much material to bite into............
Then fit checking your measurement to be sure the bolt will set into the hole
You can even use a longer bolt thats spaced with a few washers if you cant find a bolt thats long enough with out one, best to trim it down to proper length though.
Rick,from the looks of things the bolt that was installed was too short ,
installing a new timesert may work but your not going to have much material to bite into............
It really does look like a longer bolt would work out much better. Here's pic of the bolt with the insert still on it. That bolt didn't go into the hole (or Time-Sert) very far.
Thanks Stan!
03-14-2017, 01:02 PM
#4
Rennlist Member
Rick, the fact that the Timesert fractured like that probably means the outer threads are compromised. Try screwing in a new Timesert a few threads, if it is not pretty tight then it will fail. JB weld, as Stan mentioned, may work. I would stick with steel inserts, they are stronger than stainless.
Timesert also makes oversized inserts called "Big-Serts" for this purpose, here: http://www.timesert.com/html/bigsert.html
The question is whether there is enough "meat" on the boss.
Be sure that the tap is square to the hole, either make a guide or buy theirs. Follow the directions carefully.
PET doesn't show that longer M8 bolt, just the shorter 35mm one. I think the correct length would be 63mm for that longer M8-- the "stick-out" should be the same as the shorter one. Yours does a look a bit short.
Timesert also makes oversized inserts called "Big-Serts" for this purpose, here: http://www.timesert.com/html/bigsert.html
The question is whether there is enough "meat" on the boss.
Be sure that the tap is square to the hole, either make a guide or buy theirs. Follow the directions carefully.
PET doesn't show that longer M8 bolt, just the shorter 35mm one. I think the correct length would be 63mm for that longer M8-- the "stick-out" should be the same as the shorter one. Yours does a look a bit short.
03-14-2017, 02:37 PM
#5
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Rick, the fact that the Timesert fractured like that probably means the outer threads are compromised. Try screwing in a new Timesert a few threads, if it is not pretty tight then it will fail. JB weld, as Stan mentioned, may work. I would stick with steel inserts, they are stronger than stainless.
Timesert also makes oversized inserts called "Big-Serts" for this purpose, here: http://www.timesert.com/html/bigsert.html
The question is whether there is enough "meat" on the boss.
Be sure that the tap is square to the hole, either make a guide or buy theirs. Follow the directions carefully.
PET doesn't show that longer M8 bolt, just the shorter 35mm one. I think the correct length would be 63mm for that longer M8-- the "stick-out" should be the same as the shorter one.
Timesert also makes oversized inserts called "Big-Serts" for this purpose, here: http://www.timesert.com/html/bigsert.html
The question is whether there is enough "meat" on the boss.
Be sure that the tap is square to the hole, either make a guide or buy theirs. Follow the directions carefully.
PET doesn't show that longer M8 bolt, just the shorter 35mm one. I think the correct length would be 63mm for that longer M8-- the "stick-out" should be the same as the shorter one.
I'm a little concerned also, about the first few threads for the insert. But, when I can determine for sure the bolt size (I'm going to Fastenal locally tomorrow) I'm going to try the new insert/JB Weld, longer bolt or Stan's stud and nut route. I would rather not re-tap for a Big-Sert just yet.
That's what she said...