Ryan Thompson

Hello 928 Experts,

I just bought this car 1 month ago. ‘85 928S 32v Automatic. I attached a picture, because posts are better with pics!

Yesterday my car started making a sound like rod knocking. I did a few Google /YouTube searches and found several posts on the possibility of this being lifter noise.

I have only owned this car for a month. I am not new to Porsches. I currently own a 86 944 N/A. I have owned the following in order. 914 2.0L (13 years), 84 944, 77 911S (bought to fix and sell), 76 912E, and finally this 928S.

I drained the oil and as you can see in the pictures there are metal shavings in the catch pan.

I am very discouraged at the moment and looking for the "next step".

I bought this car for very cheap $3,000. I just replaced the front shocks and rears were next on the list. I also just replaced the cooling fan inner and outer bearings. This problem started the day after replacing the cooling fan inner and outer bearings (guessing now way this is related at all). The bearings were ridiculously worn out. The cooling fan is still attached to the smog pump and crank pulley.

I put new 20 50 oil in with marvel mystery oil and then Resoline (can't remember spelling)

Second time I drained moments ago less metal shavings, but still a good amount.

Mrmerlin

well have you done a flex plate /crank end play check?
This means to remove the lower bell housing,
then inspect the flex plate for a bow before you loosen the clamp.
Then remove the bolt and make sure the clamp is sliding on the shaft,
then put a dial indicator on the flywheel and pry it front to back and take a reading.

max movement in inches is .016 in.
nominal is about .008 in.
Then go and remove the rear driveshaft pinch bolt notice if its tight when you loosen it.

Make sure the bolt isnt damaged then install it with some blue loctite to 66 ft/lbs.
then pry the flywheel to the rear and then install the front pinch bolt the same as the rear
Based on your info you may have bearing failure.
BUT a crank end play check is warranted

jcorenman

Ryan,

First, Welcome!

Any idea how many miles on the oil in your picture? Whatever the answer, it is not good. Follow Stan's advice advice to verify, but most likely it is a thrust-bearing failure caused by former neglect.

The good news is that you paid almost nothing, and worst-case you are looking for a good used 85/86 engine to drop in, shouldn't cost you more than a couple grand. (The bad news is that you just missed 928 International's annual half-price sale, the good news that a lot of 85/86's got built and Mark's regular price isn't bad. Finding a good engine is not a problem, if it comes to that).

Other than that, how's the rest of the car? Looks great in the pics, and the D90 wheels are quite nice!

Ryan Thompson

Thank you for the feedback. I saw the end play check when looking for possible failure options.

The history on the car is limited. I bought it from a 60 year old gentleman and he was selling for his brother, who was in a home and had a stroke. The engine was supposed to be a replacement, as the brother neglected the timing belt and ruined the motor. It sounded good when I test drove it and it had been sitting for a while.

I owned a detailing company in college 14 years ago and the interior cleaned up nicely. Peeling dash and 944 or later 928 worn non original drivers seat (8 way power).

What is the cost of a rebuild kit, if such a kit still exists? I have done a quick Google search with lackluster results.

PaulD_944S2

Honestly, that oil looks really, really, bad.

It looks like mud.
Is there water in it?

jeff spahn

The rebuild kit you are asking about won't fix your problem. If your thrust bearing is gone and has gotten into the block you're looking at a coffee table candidate. It is much easier to just find a good used 85/86 engine and swap it out. It is an easy job to swap the whole engine.

granprixweiss928

Id say if the pan was clean when you dumped out that oil, the you have major issues. The noises dont lie.

Pull the motor and open it up to find out why.

It doesnt not look good that's for sure!

zekgb

Yeah that engine's going to have to come out for sure. Where are you located? I've got a decent spare on a stand in my garage, if you are on the west coast it might be a good option.

Ryan Thompson

Hi Kevin,

I may want to take you up on your offer. I live outside Portland, Oregon.

I don't know how to send you an email separate.

zekgb

Ryan,

You can email me at zekgb at hotmail dot com

Ryan Thompson

Thanks! I will email you.

Spider4me

Hi Ryan, welcome to the joys of 928 ownership. There are a lot of knowledgeable 928 owners in the Portland Vancouver area and some real experts in Bend.
Feel free to call on us.
neil

dr bob

Hi Ryan --

Welcome to the group! Sounds like you are getting an immersive initial experience with 928 ownership. Be sure to read the whole 'New Visitors' thread at the top. Lots of tips, plus links to info on testing the end play and flex-plate bow that others have mentioned.

I can also recommend that you go ahead and join the forum as a regular Rennlist member. It's amazingly inexpensive, and will improve your user experience in many ways. It lets you build a signature line where you can put your car information, reduces a lot of the ads that support the board for non-members, and perhaps most importantly for you, it lets you solicit parts and pieces here.

----

On to your car issue. Were it mine, I'd check and adjust the crankshaft end play and eliminate the drive shaft pre-load exactly as described by others above. The filter would get changed and some lighter oil and a couple quarts of ATF mixed in, then run for a little while at no load. Then another oil and filter change, this time with the correct oil.

If the end play is excessive, I'd be looking carefully at motor mounts and oil pan gasket, mostly because most 928's need them both anyway. With the oil pan off, you can inspect he thrust bearing and main bearing web that supports it. The real damage happens once the crank eats the bearing and the bearing web cracks. Before that you -might- be able to put a new bearing in, but that's a rare event. Generally by the time you are seeing a lot of metal in the oil, funny noises, and actual binding of the crank, the engine is toast. You may be one of the lucky few, if all you've seen so far is bearing metal. The end-play measurement and the visual on the thrust bearing and support web will guide your next steps.

Neil mentions the 928 resources in your area. There are some experienced owners there in the Portland metro area. Run a flag up if you need support checking the crank end play and releasing any preload on it. Most members are more than willing to support your work, often for a sandwich and a mug.

Here on the east side of the mountains, resources are less plentiful. I'd dash right over to help, except for the fact that it's snowing on and off into next week. You'll do better with local support, but all your new non-local friends here on the list are here to support you. Many have BTDT with the issues you are facing now. Plus the things you discover along your ownership way have been almost undoubtedly been seen and addressed by others before you. Take advantage of the support network and save yourself time, money and aggravation.


Again, welcome to the group!


PS: Share more of your purchase experience, plus some pics of your new car. We love pics!

Ryan Thompson

Thank you all for making me feel so welcome.

Per Dr. Rob's request: I bought the 928 off Salem Craigslist in Independence Oregon. The owner had a stroke and his brother (in his late 60's/early 70's) was selling the car on behalf of his brother.

According to the owner's brother, the car had a replacement engine put in some years ago, as he didn't replace the timing belt and it broke.
I don't think he drove it much after that. It had been sitting for a few years, but started up occasionally was the story I got.

He wanted $4900, but because of all the factors and lack of any records and horrible shocks, I got him down to $3000. Now I am glad I did. Let's just say my Wife is less than thrilled with my new purchase decision. She hates my old car addiction as it is. Thankfully, she loves me despite it!

The car, as stated above, desperately needed new shocks. It was like a roller coaster. I love white though and the paint is original and in good condition. It was VERY dirty, but I owned a detailing company in college, so that wasn't a problem. So far, I have just cleaned the car; no polishing yet. I clay barred the entire paint, to remove a lot of the oxidation and contaminants. I think I have 15 hours of cleaning alone. He lived down a dirt/gravel road. The drivers seat is from a later 928 or 944 and the bolster nearest the door is toast. I have it fixed with black gorilla tape (real classy). It was missing a front drivers light, which I replaced. I just replaced the front shocks (Sachs all I could afford) and rears are next (already purchased). Just got to remove that long bolt on the rear. Tried but was tired and gave up. I was too eager to feel the results of the front replacement. Pretty awesome that these come with factory adjustable coil overs.

The car has new tires, brakes, and the aftermarket staggered (D90 ATP) wheels which should polish up nicely.

Here are some pics of the car during pre-purchase and some after.

Mrmerlin

before you add shocks check the ride height and adjust as necessary ,
from the pictures it appears it set too low,
this will take out the alternator and the AC units and damage the block
Plus the car will handle better when it set to the factory ride height,