twinreds

Long time air cooled fan and owner, trying to get into 928 territory.
Found a 1986.5 with 5 speed MT and this is what the PPI found (verbatim):

1- Power steering lines are wet & feels weak
2- Inner tie rods need replacement
3- Transmission leaks? wet at torque tube to transmission rear
4- cam covers leaking
5- Front blower not working
6- A/C not working
7- Surges under load, possible misfire

The guy selling it is kind of absent minded, he doesn't seem to have records (owned car for 3 years) and not necessarily helpful (not a passionate Porschephile).

Should I run or can I sit down and negotiate? Car physically looks very good (not perfect). I'm trying to be objective, but I want it so bad I cannot be objective. How much work and expense am I looking at?
Thank you all
Miguel

granprixweiss928

All might be acceptable and fixable if the rest of the car meets your expectations and the price is right.

Shawn Stanford

Yeah, that all sounds fairly typical. You're just spoiled because 911s have far fewer moving parts.

What are the options, condition, miles, and price?

Wisconsin Joe

Well, all of that is fixable.

As a general rule, paint and exterior costs the most to make right.

Interior costs second most.

Mechanical costs third most (note that I don't say "least").

Without records, a timing belt & water pump are strongly suggested.

Fuel lines are strongly suggested too.

If you can do most of the work yourself (and there is a lot of places to find information on doing these), then you should be able to do much of it. A/C and trans work are out of my league, so I would personally pay to have those done. The rest of it is doable by a moderately skilled and equipped home mechanic.

Depending on the condition of the rest of it (primarily paint and interior) and miles, this might be a good project.

Or not.

It's really hard to make a definitive judgement from your fairly brief description.

twinreds

1- The exterior is more than average (small rust area on the cowl below the windshield, but otherwise, very good)
2- Mileage 98,xxx
3- I have no time or enough knowledge/skill to DIY it.
4- Price: I'm trying to wrestle him in the low, low $10's. Is that too much?

Any ideas on what the surge issue might be? The person doing the PPI said it happens when he hammered it on 4th gear.
It's kind of funny, I've purchased 6 air cooled 911's (including a 930) with no PPi, but the 928 makes me feel like I know nothing about Porsches...

Eplebnista

As others have stated, these are not deal killers. In fact, non-working AC, leaking cam covers and PS leaks are pretty much the norm. Other issues you note are not so normal but not hard to fix. A surge only in fourth makes no sense and could be anything. Anyway, finding an 86.5 five speed is harder than fixing these issues. Timing belt is the mission critical item - if it hasn't been changed in this decade, it is probably due.

Finding someone who really knows the 928 can be difficult and they will not be cheap. I have heard that a 911 will always cost at least $30,000 - it's just a question of whether you pay it up front or after you buy the car. A 928 is similar conceptually, but the amount is probably closer to $20k. Either way, the essential truth is that there is no such thing as a cheap Porsche.

If the car needs a timing belt and the seller doesn't know when it was done last, you are going to sink $5k into this car to make things right even without attacking the rust spot.

Mileage does not matter as much as condition and whether the car was loved or just ignored. Like any Porsche, these are expensive cars to maintain. An unloved car will have a list of things that need to be done because the owner couldn't or wouldn't pay the price to keep the car up to snuff. A loved 928 can have 200k on the odometer and still run like a moose.

If you can post pics of the car or tell us more about it, we can give better advice.

BTW, your red cars are achingly gorgeous, even if they have their engines in the wrong end.

docmirror

Now you know what you know, but you still don't know what you don't know.

All the catch-up maint is going to be $$$$$$ if you don't DIY. Example; $2000 for front end belt and water pump from a indy shop. $1600 for top end refresh and cam cover seal. Add that you the stuff you know, then add some cosmetics for paint. Cracked dash? Seats? door panels?

It's all about the condition of the car at this age. Not a good model for non-DIY. I would say unless the int and paint are in good shape, $10k seems a bit high, but again - condition.

twinreds

Some of the issues that scare me:
1- The area of the torque tube to transmission is wet: Is this most commonly from the tube going into the transmission or from the transmission itself?
2- A second issue that came up is that the clutch engages very high up on the pedal range of motion (doesn't slip, it just requires the pedal to be almost completely up before it's fully engaged)
3- The "surge" and how to diagnose

I cannot work on the car, but do have a budget to fix things if there is reasonable chances that the car will end up being reliable.

FRUNKenstein

Frankly, the part that scares me the most is when you say that you can't or won't DIY. I feel like today's 928 owner must be willing to DIY at least the easy stuff or else it will be a bad experience. Of the 6 P-cars I have owned, the 928 is the most demanding to own. See this thread: https://rennlist.com/forums/928-foru...te-my-car.html

jcorenman

There is no oil in the torque tube, so it must be leaking from the tranny. Not common, and I am not sure how big a deal it is. Does the transmission shift OK? Synchros OK?

The pre-87 cars have a dual-disc clutch, which has a long engagement. The pedal needs to be all the way down for a complete disengagement and easy shifting, then a long and very soft engagement travel, and fully engaged near the top. They can also be fiddly, but if you can go from neutral with clutch out, to fully depressed and easily shift into gear, then you are good.

Most likely the MAF (hot-wire mass airflow sensor) causing a lean mixture, ballpark $350 for a rebuilt, 0.1 hours of labor. Could also be aged/cracked ignition wires, otherwise the ignition system is pretty bullet-proof.

Timing belt is the big question mark, 86.5's are interference engines. Any indication of when it was done last?

Is it red?

Mrmerlin

you could buy my Swiss 1985 Euro,
its sorted out and my daily driver and its an auto trans,
not really anything to fix just drive it and change the oil.
14K its yours
http://philadelphia.craigslist.org/cto/5791523924.html

Tony

long shot...ref. WET...does the car have rear AC? i think there is a drain back there. Plenty of sources on an auto to leak but a 5sp would be odd at that area?

twinreds

1- seems to shift ok, but clutch seems to engage fully very high up ( tech said maybe needs to be bled). Take this with a grain of salt, this is coming from someone who only know how air cooled 911-generation cars feel when shifting
2- I think that by wet they mean evidence of fresh oily residue (btw, no puddles were seen where it stood for the inspection)
3- I love your car and appreciate the offer, but this is a 5 speed

Adk46

All good answers, but the best is MrMerlin's. You couldn't have a better PO than Stan. As close to CPO as you can get.

But if you've fallen in love with the 86.5 and you are prepared to nurture it back to goodness, the PPI is for negotiating a fair price. As a semi-project with the uncertainty of a box of chocolates, it may never be finished - few are. You may love it more and more as you improve it, or not. The question really is about yourself.

I've driven my 928 much more this year than my rock-solid, pinnacle-of-engineering '09 Cayman. Some of that is because I've driven to 928 gatherings to meet the guys of this forum, and their cars. To be frank, much of the camaraderie comes from working on the cars ourselves, at least a little.

Hilton

Mechanicals are fixable for a price, using new parts from factory where needed without penalty. If you're not going to DIY the issue list you have is north of $10k (please don't get suckered into just replacing the cam cover seals without getting more done.. you'll end up paying the same labour again pretty soon to go in and replace other individual rubber items in the intake).

IMO the scariest part is that you say exterior is average with some rust near rear hatch.. the cost of a paint job is large, in part because of the cost of new rubbers (doors, hatch, windows, light seals, etc.. north of $2k worth of rubber bits), and even if you stump up the cash, paint and interior once redone can never be "factory".

IMO - you're better off looking for a better car in the $20k bracket.