944 build quality vs 928
06-16-2016, 01:23 AM
#16
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This is a semantic debate now. I would say that, yes, quality is the same thing as reliability. So I am not interested in either. I am interested in the car that looks awesome and drives fantastic and makes me smile when I see it or drive it. No Honda or Toyota can do that for me, but clearly they do for a lot of folks, judging by the number of "tuned" Hondas and Toyotas roaming the streets of Fresno. To each his own. I wouldn't want one even if it required no maintenance for 20 years.
06-16-2016, 05:19 AM
#17
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I would have to agree my 944 experienced substantially less "issues" than any of my 928's. When I bought my first 928 I was expecting 944 reliability with better performance and features. After all cost about 3X as much. I was a bit disappointed in that regard. Got better features and performance, but sadly, as a bottom feeder, my 928's have been one electrical issue after another coupled with leaky sun roof's, hatch releases that do not, intermittent mirror function, AC that has failed more often than worked, failed motor mounts (had that in the 944 by the way), on and on. I still love my 928, don't want to replace it with a 944, but would happily forgo the many unnecessary issues ..
06-16-2016, 07:23 AM
#18
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I've had early and late 944s (84-89, or 95 if you count the 968), 8v and 16v, high and low mileage. I've also had early and late 928s (82-87 S4), high and low mileage, manual and automatic. I do all my own work. FWIW I've also had 911s spanning from 82 thru 95.
The comments in this thread make me believe that it's impossible to make definitive statements because I can be convinced that the 944 is easier to work on and more reliable, while others swear to the contrary. But just to throw in my 2 cents...
I agree that the 944s remind me more of the 911s than the 928s do. As far as driving experience, how they're put together, what it's like to own one.
The interior quality of the 944 went up a lot in 85.5. The 928 interior quality was pretty much the same in all of the ones I had. I'd say quality is exactly the same when comparing the 85.5 944s and 928s. They're just arranged and assembled differently; the 944 interior is a lot easier to disassemble. But materials, construction, etc is the same.
The engines, as we all know, are closely related, and so it's no surprise to me that I found them to be of the same material and build quality. Design is a totally different topic...
The 928's suspension is much more robust than the 944's (or 911's). The arms look a little thicker and there are more of them. The front sway bar is mounted better (though the 924 had it like the 928 - the 944's engine was too big and forced the bar down away from the frame). Again, quality of materials is the same, quality of contruction is the same. It comes down to design difference. And again, it has pros and cons - you get more features (better geometry) but it's more complex (harder to work on).
The 928 electrical system... the quality of parts is the same as you'd see in a 944 or 911. I frequently see 928 part numbers in the 944. So it's the design that's the problem. But I guess that's hinting to the true question here... If Porsche made all their cars at the same quality level, we're really debating which design is better, which is very subjective.
Anyway, some random observations.
928 automatics came from MB and were of higher quality than the Porsche units in the 944s.
928 manuals are Getrag, right? They're better than the Audi units in the N/A 944s. The turbos had very good units, though.
Every 928 I've had or even heard of has needed the power steering rack resealed/rebuilt. 944s rarely need this. (Odd, as they're both from ZF)
Although the 928's battery is a PITA to get to, I absolutely prefer that to the 944's location at the firewall, because of acid leaks and rotting battery trays.
928 clutches are easier to remove (like the 968).
944 transmissions are easier to remove.
When I jack up one corner of a 928, the doors bind in the jambs when opening/closing. This effect is much less / sometimes non existent on the 944.
944s didn't get poly bumpers until 1986, and only on the turbo and later 3.0L!
944 hatch delamination is a big problem. The 928 hatch may be heavy with that steel frame but it doesn't delaminate!
The comments in this thread make me believe that it's impossible to make definitive statements because I can be convinced that the 944 is easier to work on and more reliable, while others swear to the contrary. But just to throw in my 2 cents...
I agree that the 944s remind me more of the 911s than the 928s do. As far as driving experience, how they're put together, what it's like to own one.
The interior quality of the 944 went up a lot in 85.5. The 928 interior quality was pretty much the same in all of the ones I had. I'd say quality is exactly the same when comparing the 85.5 944s and 928s. They're just arranged and assembled differently; the 944 interior is a lot easier to disassemble. But materials, construction, etc is the same.
The engines, as we all know, are closely related, and so it's no surprise to me that I found them to be of the same material and build quality. Design is a totally different topic...
The 928's suspension is much more robust than the 944's (or 911's). The arms look a little thicker and there are more of them. The front sway bar is mounted better (though the 924 had it like the 928 - the 944's engine was too big and forced the bar down away from the frame). Again, quality of materials is the same, quality of contruction is the same. It comes down to design difference. And again, it has pros and cons - you get more features (better geometry) but it's more complex (harder to work on).
The 928 electrical system... the quality of parts is the same as you'd see in a 944 or 911. I frequently see 928 part numbers in the 944. So it's the design that's the problem. But I guess that's hinting to the true question here... If Porsche made all their cars at the same quality level, we're really debating which design is better, which is very subjective.
Anyway, some random observations.
928 automatics came from MB and were of higher quality than the Porsche units in the 944s.
928 manuals are Getrag, right? They're better than the Audi units in the N/A 944s. The turbos had very good units, though.
Every 928 I've had or even heard of has needed the power steering rack resealed/rebuilt. 944s rarely need this. (Odd, as they're both from ZF)
Although the 928's battery is a PITA to get to, I absolutely prefer that to the 944's location at the firewall, because of acid leaks and rotting battery trays.
928 clutches are easier to remove (like the 968).
944 transmissions are easier to remove.
When I jack up one corner of a 928, the doors bind in the jambs when opening/closing. This effect is much less / sometimes non existent on the 944.
944s didn't get poly bumpers until 1986, and only on the turbo and later 3.0L!
944 hatch delamination is a big problem. The 928 hatch may be heavy with that steel frame but it doesn't delaminate!
06-16-2016, 08:16 AM
#19
I have had three 928's my first cost almost 9 grand I replaced the timing belt and the water pump that was four years ago (was a superbelt) oh and I put porkens belt adjuster on and drove it two years till something went pop. I found two bad fuel componets, regulater and oh the other thing,you know. Fixed a little wiring and added a couple of fuses. that is the total. My only complaint is the dam e-brake handle,when you get to be an old fart with back problems that thing wants to grab your a--- all the time. my 86 is still not all back together,my bad. Ray Well looking at it this repley should be somewhere else,oh well best to all
06-16-2016, 08:59 AM
#20
I owned a 1990 944 S2 and have a 1990 928 S4. I would say the interior of the 928 is superior. Seats are more comfortable with more adjustment options, more leather used throughout the interior, digital dash vs analogue.
Also the fact that most of the body is made of aluminium was a big selling point for me. Despite being galvanized, here in the UK many 944s have rust issues.
I'm no expert mechanic but the 928 is a bit more complicated than the 944. All these cars are ageing so there are likely more potential issues with a 928.
Also the fact that most of the body is made of aluminium was a big selling point for me. Despite being galvanized, here in the UK many 944s have rust issues.
I'm no expert mechanic but the 928 is a bit more complicated than the 944. All these cars are ageing so there are likely more potential issues with a 928.
06-16-2016, 09:46 AM
#21
Rennlist Member
Owned a 951 from 1992 until 1995, 944 S2 from 1995 until 2013 and a 928 GTS since 2003 until present. We also have a 1972 911 T Targa in the stable since 2001, but this car is not part of the discussion here.
They are all different but the 928 is by far superior. Built quality in my GTS is far better than in any of my 944's that I owned. The 928 is a truly hand built, manufactured car and it shows.
Working on a n/a 944 is easy and not a big challenge, talk about the turbo charged 951 and you have a completely different animal in front of you! Working on my GTS is a walk in the park in comparison to a 951.
Only a few 928's I have seen so far have corrosion issues, but in the 944 it is a common issue. Especially here in Europe.
The 928 is of course more complicated just due to the different systems that need electrical power. RDK, PSD, Seat Memory... the more you got, the more problems you'll have. BUT I have to say, if you maintain the systems accordingly and follow simple rules, like cleaning of contacts....
My GTS never failed so far or did not get me to my destination. I think this is pretty remarkable for a 24 year old car and the fact that the car is with me for 13 years. If you follow the forum, theadvice from all these great people here and you have some mechanical skills, this is possible without any problem IMHO.
They are all different but the 928 is by far superior. Built quality in my GTS is far better than in any of my 944's that I owned. The 928 is a truly hand built, manufactured car and it shows.
Working on a n/a 944 is easy and not a big challenge, talk about the turbo charged 951 and you have a completely different animal in front of you! Working on my GTS is a walk in the park in comparison to a 951.
Only a few 928's I have seen so far have corrosion issues, but in the 944 it is a common issue. Especially here in Europe.
The 928 is of course more complicated just due to the different systems that need electrical power. RDK, PSD, Seat Memory... the more you got, the more problems you'll have. BUT I have to say, if you maintain the systems accordingly and follow simple rules, like cleaning of contacts....
My GTS never failed so far or did not get me to my destination. I think this is pretty remarkable for a 24 year old car and the fact that the car is with me for 13 years. If you follow the forum, theadvice from all these great people here and you have some mechanical skills, this is possible without any problem IMHO.