Tony

Ok, weve all seen and read articles on the BMW problems of the mid-late 90s with their nikasil cylinders going south. The same thing occured at jaguar BTW in the same time period.
What is the deal with this stuff?

Ive been doing alot of reading and research on here and i see no other complaints about the process. Just BMW stands out. Was it a flaw in there manufacturing process (like they would ever admit it) ??

Everyone says the high sulfur fuels in the US are bad for it and are to blame for the break down of the coating. Well, the sulfur levels in US fuel have dropped over the years, with the lowest levels to be had in CA and out west here due to pollution concerns. Also, I read that staying away from high sulphur, crap oils like penzoil and quaker state may help as well.

BMW has been running this stuff for ages on there Bikes, porsche has been running it on there cars and current models, piston aircraft engines use the coating technology as well!


Just want to bring up the topic as many of use would like a viable option to treat our cylinders that will open avenues for aftermarket pistons and cheaper cylinder wall reapir if we have major problems.

Anyone have a link to a run down of the various fuel companies in the us and the chemical breakdown of there fuels. specifically sulfur? Ive found a WHOLE bunch for Canada, but not the US.

Who has the lowest sulfur fuel in the US?

John Veninger

The U.S. standards call for 120 sulphur parts per million (ppm) in 2004 and 30 ppm by 2006, putting it below the projected European standard of 50 ppm and sharply lower than the Mediterranean standard.

Doug Hillary

Hi,
Tony - Your comments:
"Everyone says the high sulpher fuels in the US are bad for it and are to blame for the break down of the coating. Well, the sulpher levels in US fuel have dropped over the years, with the lowest levels to be had in CA and out west here due to pollution concerns. Also, I read that staying away from high sulpher, crap oils like penzoil and quaker state may help as well.

BMW has been running this stuff for ages on there Bikes, porsche has been running it on there cars and current models, piston aircraft engines use the coating technology as well! "

1 - I have checked the Virgin Oil Analysis ( unused new oil ) reports on a number of Pennzoil and Quaker State engine oil types available in the US and Canada and they show no sulphur content
Sulphur would be specifically refined from most engine oils as their additive packages are especially formulated to neutralise it.
2 - Sulphur as a component in the oil arrives there primarily via the combustion process. It is a particular problem in high speed heavy diesel engines. It is directly related to the fuel's sulphur content and the engine's combustion processes
3 - Oils that meet API SJ> and have a secondary diesel rating API CJ> are extremely good at handling the products of combustion that end up in the oil
4 - Oils with a high Total Base Number ( TBN ) say 9> , will always handle high sulphur fuels better. Some oils have a TBN of 12 or more. Cheaper old API spec oils may have a TBN of 6
5 - Australia has only recently moved to low sulpur petrol ( 0.012%) and diesel ( 0.05%) fuels. Until 2000 or thereabouts, the sulphur content in both fuel types was extremely high. Diesel was 0.5% and this required shorter oil drain periods and caused problems with the actual oil requirements/drain periods in these engines
Porsche actually halved their oil drain interval recommendations here in the 1980s and this was probably because of this issue
6 - I believe the BMW "problem" was one of manufacturing/assembly/application rather than with the coating itself
7 - I have owned a number of BMW motorbikes and cars with Nikasil liners and these were trouble free even with high sulphur fuels. I always use oils with a high TBN however
8 - I have not heard much of the "BMW Nikasil" issue here in general terms

IMHO cheaper very old API spec. engine oils when used with high sulpur fuels and not changed at very short intervals will definitely cause accelerated internal corrosion of major engine components

I hope this is of interest

Tony

VERY MUCH SO DOUG! Thanks, thats the kind of info im looking for people to share!

UsChrome and Millenium both in Wisconsin seem to be the 2 big companies that do the Nicom stuff.

For info on the BMWs just type Nikasil BMW in any search engine and it will be one of the top 3 hits.

thanks

Steve Cattaneo

Tony,
I think Brendan started a nikasil thread about a year ago. I searched for it and can not find it. A lot of good information in it.


I can not believe that there are no companies in this highly technical world that can graphite treat a custom piston.

tuk_928

Hi Doug and Tony,

Thank you for the information...fascinating topic WRT BMW's issues in their V-8s from the mid-90s...learned a lot about it when I was looking for a 540i 6spd (1994-95 era) a few years ago. I have bookmarked a number of informative sites on this topic if anyone is interested.

So, what is the executive summary WRT sulphur content of oils and fuels and which do less harm to the v-8s in our beloved 928's. In other words, which fuels and oils should the newbies use? The PO used Mobil 1 in my car exclusively from what I can tell...I'll do the same. I've been experimenting with a variety of premium fuels but I'm only on my 3rd tank since purchase...can't judge anything yet.

Thanks for thoughts...recommendations...

Best,
Tim

Doug Hillary

Hi,
tuk_928 - '72 Bavaria eh? good one. I once had a 2800 - a good car

If your 928 has been running on M1 15w-50 you join many of the group on here as it appears to be the most popular choice. It has a good TBN too. The "Oil Condition Report No4" posted on here a few days ago may be of interest to you as well

As to fuels - sorry I do not know enough about your fuels in the USA to comment. In Australia most of us with S4s use the highest quality Premium fuel

Best of luck

tuk_928

Hi Doug,

Thanks for your thoughts....yes, my shark is on the M1 15w-50 regimen along with vitamin 93 octane. I'll do a search on the "Oil Condition Report No4"...I missed that thread.

I love my old Bavaria...classy car in superb condition...fun to drive...cheap to own. Happy to hear you enjoyed your 2800.

Best,
Tim

LT Texan

lots of documentation in the UK about bmw problems,just like the US. No probs on the continent.

ErnestSw

There's no such word as sulpher and the element which has the atomic number 16 is SULFUR.
Sorry, the devil made me do it.

Fastest928

Does anyone know the effect of silicon content with respect to nikasil adhesion?

Marc
DEVEK

Doug Hillary

Hi,
Marc - sorry, I do not !

ErnestSw - the Australian Pocket Oxford Dictionary spells it SULPHUR. Sorry for my spelling mistakes - I'm sure you checked that there is about two ( 2 ).
My English teacher from 1954 would have smacked my fingers with a wooden ruler, she was that way. I never loved her and often had red knuckles

Sulphur's density is 1.96...2.06g/cm3! Funny thing density

By the way - how is the overheating project ?
Sorry, the Devil made me do it ( Devil needs a capital D )

Slack day taking pulses and precribing Ernest?

I am about to visit my Son No 1 who is an MD ( an Avionics Engineer too ) in NZ. He works his butt off in the Public Hospital system so I know a little about the Med. thing but not very much. A tough field, he starts Surgery in January

Regards

ErnestSw

Hey Doug,
I was brought up in an English school system and have an undergraduate degree in Biology with a minor in Chemistry. I'd never seen it spelled "Sulphur" until this thread. The Webster Dictionary spells it "Sulfur", but, since it's an American reference, I'll defer judgement. Having met with other GT owners at the big get together several weeks ago, it appears that all of us experience similar temperatures. I've come to the conclusion that the GT runs hotter than most other 928s. I don't like it, but I'm resigned to it.
The 31st of this month will be four years since I retired from practice so my pulse taking and prescribing days are behind me.
Please give my apologies to the Devil. (:-)
Regards

Lizard928

Ernest, I accept your appoligies

Tony

Do you Marc?