The only things that you've started was you and Mongo feeding off each other's posts. Where is the money???

If Mark wants to take the task on, let him do so. 'Paraphrasing' a book doesn't mean anything and I am no bench racer either. However, paraphrasing a book though is key to gaining further understanding that there are reasons why there are AUTOMOTIVE ENGINEERS who figure this stuff out rather than me.

Good God IMO please pull the stick out of your butt. It's been in there all week!

Paraphrasing IS bench racing. First hand experience on the other hand what should be posted, not some "I red this in a book/website/my cousin's bother told me" second hand info. Maybe you've been doing this for such a long time that don't see the difference between the two.

Are you really expecting someone to actually use your book/internet expertise to build a manifold? You and Mark are so naive when it comes to actually building something.

And I'm keeping the stick where it is for now. :)

Probably the best way of avoiding slivers.

I am naive, got it... nevermind the history of rebuilding 944 motors, Chevy engines, and working on 928s. Clearly like the rapper Eminem, you are the 'real slim shady' :rolleyes:

OZMO Engineering in Australia does LS3 and other intakes plus offer consulting, development, and manufacturing for ANY V-8 or 4 cylinder..... several different configurations shapes and sizes. Boosted or N A they do it all.
Seem to add some horsepower but some of the carbon fiber work is beautiful !!! And unlike my earlier attempts to find suitable parts this is the real deal :)

OZMO does pretty work. I'm sure it's affordable if you really want it.

just to add fuel to this fire, since i have no skin in the game but want to see where kibort or others take it...

David Vizard's intake runner "rule of thumb" (as always, very generalized) is 7" from valve to plenum for 10,000rpm. add 1.7" for each 1000rpm lower.

after measuring the runners of my 944S2 manifold and 4v intake port (17.34" total), and running through that "equation", i get 4000rpm which is right on for 944S2 peak torque.

after measuring the runners of my 944NA manifold and 2v intake port (19.23" total), and running through that "equation", i get 3000rpm which is right on for 944NA peak torque.

i am going to build a boost manifold with either 14" (if i can fit it) or 7" total length from valve to plenum, for my 928S3/944 hybrid engine project. shooting for 6000rpm "tuning".

for your information:
944-2v head (basically 928 2v euro) is 82mm from valve to gasket face.
the 928S3 has ~85mm from center of intake valve (where stem meets head) to gasket face...imagine the S4+ is similar...

get to it already :icon107:

Interesting. It'd be very practical (doable and cheap) to take an early intake spider, shorten the legs and widen the plenum. People have done some very interesting work in head porting as well. Add port-matching, too.

So if the length from plenum to valve is ~16" then the resonance is 4700rpm. I see 4400 on my dyno runs. If it was at 5500rpm that'd be better so add 1.5" to each side of the plenum. A plastic or composite unit would look pretty cool.

Pergaps learning the difference between building and rebuilding is in order?

if greg can put aside our differences(which are very petty by the way), i would be all over a deposit on the intake that would work for me.
or carl too.

Well kinda. Sure it's a bitch, but you don't have to remove the head or machine any parts. That's what I call drop in.

Because if you understood ANYTHING about product development, engineering by committee NEVER works. Each wants their bit to be included.


Agree 100%. There is a TON of work that goes into any part of the intake or exhaust system.



This sub thread is almost the best part of this thread!

But mostly just subscribing to see where this goes.

If you believe that Porsche left 100hp on the table with a simple intake change you are delusional. Yes, the 928 was not allowed to upstage the 911 turbo for sure, but they didn't go from 4.5 litres to 5.4 litres and all the expense if they could have JUST put on a better manifold.......

really? a 5 liter engine with 275 rear wheel HP.... when there are a TON of cars on the road in that era that have near double the HP/liter?
yes, its mostly ALL intake.
want examples... go look at the vantage i showed as an example
that cam and CR is not far off the GT.. yet, its getting 335rwhp
(mostly intake) and doing it with a 4.3 liter engine.
look at the boss mustang.. a 5 liter engine, same type of intake and less performance cam and CRs, getting near 450rwhp (same as our strokers)
why is that?? INTAKE!!
the intake is leaving ALL SORTS of power on the table. its why anderson and fan just bolted it on with HOME DEPOT parts and got almost exactly 100hp gains from that with no tuning. (stock ecu, stock MAF, but stuffed in a 4" home depot sewer pipe) :)

all this is discussion until someone puts a modified intake on a 928.
and when they do, the HP gains will be phenomenal.

I told you before, COMMISSION one!!! If Greg is not willing to do business with you then find someone else. I'm sure someone is willing to take your money and put your design into a product (even if they don't want to be officially associated wit this project). Should be easy considering you already have all the design details figured out.

I don't think you're comparing apples to apples here. I think the highest horsepower stock Mustang in '95 (being generous and allowing for the highest horsepower 928) was about 240. What stock Mustang of that era do you see making 450rwhp?? And the Vantage...aren't they supercharged? If that's what you mean by "intake," then yeah, OK. But if you're comparing to more modern cars, then the biggest thing you're missing is electronics. Cars are WAY more efficient now at extracting every last ounce of potential, and most of that IMO is due to computers/electronics.

That being said, if Mark Andersen REALLY just cobbled together some Home Depot bits and pieces and added 100hp...WHY AREN'T YOU DOING THAT?! Hell, why isn't EVERYONE doing that? I'd cheerfully replace my peeling pipe organ with some crappy Home Depot stuff for 100hp.