928 S4 purchase scenario
 

I'm planning to purchase an S4 soon and looking for advice from the tank.

Given the options of...
1. 50k miles S4 with maintenance needed and limited documentation
2. 100k miles S4 with maintenance up to date and complete documentation

Both options are similar price points. Which would you choose given that you are mechanically inclined and want to learn, but don't yet have every tool.

I'm assuming most here would opt for option 1, as that way you know the work is done right with the right solutions and you get the experience and pride of doing it yourself.

Thanks
michael

Easy, buy the one in the best cosmetic condition.

Paint/interior are much much more expensive than mechanical, to get done well.

Also don't believe "up to date" maintenance.. from most sellers that just means its had basic servicing, and still has thousands of dollars of parts to go to fix all the niggling issues :)

In this case a PPI is your friend to see if the one with maintenance up to date is worth the money. Cosmetically are they similar? Paint and interior are expensive fixes on these cars.

Depends what "servicing" means.

This is what a decent
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlis...683015c2bd.png
owners log of "servicing" looks like.

Also do NOT assume that simply because someone paid a shop to do the work, that it was done right. Only means they paid for it.....

Ideally buy a 928 from someone here who's obsessed over it and fixed lots of the little stuff.

Other than by seeing the odometer, there are plenty of beautiful 100K+ mile examples you'd never guess from their appearance. Plus, a conscientious owner will have already done the ~100K big jobs like the intake refresh, motor mounts, shocks, torque tube bearings, and etc.

Thanks for all the quick input guys.

Cosmetically, I would say they both look good and comparable, though 100k miler has had some interior work completed.

Also don't assume the odo on the 50K car is accurate.

That is very low mileage for such an old car.

What are the asking prices on each?

As mentioned, pay for a PPI done by a 928-centric mechanic. Use that report to negotiate the final (lower) price. A PPI most always pays for itself then some when used correctly in the negotiation process.

Thanks Guys.

I'd love to purchase an S4 from someone here. But, I know there could be some diamonds to be purchased and polished that are not known on rennlist.

The 50k car is $4k less than 100k car. Which in my mind is the difference in parts (sans labor) between the two.

michael

I qualify the sellers by asking them what their rennlist username is in the 928 forum.
As others have said without documentation and a solid PPI , you should expect several thousand in parts. Happy Hunting!

If you are serious, I recommend that you quickly contact Ryan from this board, AKA carnahanbb. Here is a link to his car if it isn't already sold. He took great care and put some real taste into it. Very nice car.
https://rennlist.com/forums/vehicle-...-or-trade.html


There is a Porsche dealer in his city, so a PPI should be fairly easy.

I'd buy the low-miles car and plan to do EVEYTHING to it. Vs the higher-miles car and plan for the probable need to do or re-do EVERYTHING to it.

As Speedtoys and Jim Bailey point out, there's a lot to a well-maintained car that's not always obvious. I change the oil and other fluids regularly, check the air in the tires at least a couple times a year, and think that it's well-maintained. Or I'm a fanatical predictive-maintenance owner, who fixes or at least inspects everything that anyone here reports as a problem, keeps the shock absorbers and undercarriage polished and waxed, etc.

A qualified PPI will tell you a ton about the cars and drive the decision better than my philosphical opinion above. Cars are priced relative to what you are getting and what will need to be done. Secret-- when someone shopping for my car starts a negotiation with a list of deducts for things that they say need to be done, I immediately move the initial number up to present value of what the car originally sold for, so they have a good number to start "deducting" from.

When shopping, I get a PPI to get an idea what to expect, but at least with the 928 there's a very broad spectrum of quality in cars in the market in any given period. Trying to find a starting point from which to add or deduct is arbitrary at best. Read a current discussion about valuing a car for insurance purposes, and find out what's subjective and what's objective. You'll get a clinic.

What are the color combinations?

I would pay more for a car that needs more maintenance if the colors are more unique / desirable.

All things being equal I'd pay more for the car without rub strips (it's one of the 3 reasons I purchased my 87 & 78).

Back in 2010 I had a choice between a 72K mile 89 (so, digital dash) and a 130K mile 88. I picked the 88 because the exterior looked better and I trusted the owner had maintained it better. It has turned out OK after all those years, pretty much predictable maintenance for the most part and still not bad exterior.

Interior color is one of my hesitations on the cars. The 50k car has linen and the 100k car has black. Id prefer something interesting, along the lines of burgundy, blue or cork. Call me odd.

I love the idea of the low mileage vehicle but price seems high and the interior reminds me of white plastic covered coach and love-seat.

I say keep looking. Don't "settle". Any 928 you buy will need maintenance no matter how well kept the car is, it is just the nature of these cars. So believe me, you are going to get to know your car quickly no matter the condition. If wrenching is something you love, then you will be DIY in no time.
And I am with you on "prefer something interesting". The early 928s really have some unique styling features. When I was shopping for my car, I narrowed it down to either an 89 or higher model; or an early model with a pasha interior. I ended up with a well sorted 1990 S4. But I still drool over the older cars like that brown 81 on ebay right now.

ding,ding,ding.

You're buying a vintage Porsche for mostly pleasure and enjoyment. Get what you want, the diff in mileage and mx(presumed) is of minor importance. Since you're in TX, the 928 capitol of the world you're in good hands for help and tools for most jobs on the car. Color, int, options you prefer and let the rest work itself out over the next year.

How many have you looked at and considered so far?

If these are the first two, you may want to keep looking.

If you've looked at a bunch and narrowed it down to these two, I'd choose the (supposedly) lower mileage one.
Keep in mind that the odo gear is virtually guaranteed to have broken at some point. If it wasn't fixed right away, there will be more miles on it than is shown.

There are other hints to the true mileage that are there if you know what to look for. Pedal wear is a really good one.

For the other one, as was noted, who did the work is as important (maybe more) than what was done.

But in the end, it's a toy. You are not buying it because you need it (well, maybe), you are buying it because you want it.

So get the one that you like the most. Get the one that makes you smile the most when you think about it or look at a pic. And if either of these doesn't do that (because of interior color), find another.

A friend was looking for a "summer toy" and asked for my help. We went and looked at a few different cars. She wanted a convertible, but was willing to settle for something else. The one she really liked (Mini S vert) was a bit more than she had budgeted (not more than she could afford, just more than she had planned on). The other 2 she mostly liked were hardtops.
We sat down to dinner after going and looking and discussed what we had looked at.
My basic statement was:
"It's a toy. You are getting it because you want one. You have to ask which one will make you happy. You have to ask yourself when you come out of work after a hard day and see it sitting in the parking lot waiting to take you home, which one will make you smile? And what are you willing to pay for that?"
She got the S vert. She also did a bit of homework and came to the conclusion that one would hold its value better (hadn't seen salt, she stores it in the winter and doesn't put too many miles on it).

Unlike getting married......buy one you really want :) do not settle for the first one that says yes.

So make a list of the things you require, deal-breaker things. Might be colors or something similar. In Dwayne's case for instance he was making non-sunroof a requirement because of he's tall, and at least initially only S4+ cars because he would only need to know one engine family.

After that pass/fail screening list, follow Doc's and Wisconsin Joe's advice to look at more cars, and make written list of what you want, with a score/weighting value assigned to each one. Each car youok at is "scored" after the initial pass-fail test, based on your weighted wants list.

Expand your search area beyond your immediate area. The perfect car for you may be a hundred or a thousand miles away. Mine was in Denver and came home to the L.A. area. You have a pretty extensive supportt network here; Armed with a good PPI list and your scoresheets, your initial screening will be narrowed down even if the car isn't local to you.

And FWIW, I have looked at some light gray and some linen interiors that are spectacular. Much more refined than the common black insides. The can-can red assualts my senses, and would look out of place in my black car. "Refined" is what I was looking for, rather than "sporty" etc. As Doc suggests, get something that spins your prop when you see it. There will be times when you might not think well of the car (when something isn't going well), and the charm you love will save it from the auction block.

On maintenance history: My car came to me at 22k and almost 9 years old. With a couple inches of dealer-only receipts. Seemingly the Holy Grail car. Digging through that pile of receipts was a clinic. Beyond normal services, there were way too many AC services done for instance. One might ASSume that receipts from the dealer mean that the problems were solved. Not so! The good receipts document its winter and then long-term storage conditions, normal/expected maintenance and services. So look at maintenance and repiar documentation carefully, with a jaundiced eye and an overview look at the work done, when and by whom it was done, and whether it had to be redone. And at your PPI, pay attention to the work done to verify that is is still OK.

Written lists? Sheeee-it. What's the fun in that? Find a shiny bauble that spins your prop and throw caution to the wind!

BTW, I was piggy backing on Hack's advice. He was in first with the sentiment, I just came in with some violent agreement. :burnout:

When I bought my 911 lawn mower, I'd been shopping for about 2 years on and off. After so long a time, I almost, almost settled for a silver 996 that had all the features I wanted, but I HATE black and despise silver cars. So - I gave a big sigh, and waited, and waited but finally a red aero 996 came along close to me, and I bought it sight unseen. I'm soooooooo glad I waited for what I really wanted, and on that happy note, I'm gonna hop in and go for a drive on the perfect day.

Thanks guys. You are right on and I shouldn't have to settle for a "meh" interior. This will definitely be a "toy" used on clear sky days and will be pampered in the garage near my beer fridge.

I have the list in my head, but it wouldn't take much for me to put it in excel, especially since I am a spreadsheet monkey by day.

michael

One eyeball test for "maintenance" is did they do the fuel lines?

I can't add anything to the advise given except that a black interior will remain boring unless you start adding rootwood inlays.

The color of the seats/side upholstery etc. is easy to change, and can be done well for about $200. As long as you don't need to change the color of the dash, it really is an easy job, requiring only your labor.
I've done it several times. IF you decide you want to do it, I'll provide you a procedure that will give great and long lasting appearance/performance.

Just wanted to say, "this site is awesome".
You're a great group of enthusiasts and us newbies appreciate it.

ok, you're odd. ;-) LOL:D

Just returned from a test drive of the "limited maintenance" vehicle.

The exterior color is amazing and I looked hard for rust or bubbling in the typical areas. Interior color is ok (not as bad as I thought), seats are in great shape, though one of the rear seats had a portion replaced incorrectly before the current owner purchased the car.

The test drive was great, it was smooth and took off like a rocket on the freeway. That being said, it definitely needs new rubber all around and a top end refresh...the coating on intake was cracked...and the cam covers looked rough. AC was converted to R-134a and was cold...a plus in Houston.

I will have a discussion with the boss tonight...

michael

Awesome!! Excited to see what you get!