Life Changes Quickly
02-13-2016, 05:34 PM
#31
Administrator - "Tyson"
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I wouldn't be so quick to write off the chassis until having a chassis straightening expert look it over.
https://rennlist.com/forums/928-foru...on-thread.html
While you are waiting for the insurance company dace, might as well call a couple chassis experts and have them write up an estimate. I understand the cost of such a repair may not be the best route to go, it may help your case to at least have those numbers in your pocket.
https://rennlist.com/forums/928-foru...on-thread.html
While you are waiting for the insurance company dace, might as well call a couple chassis experts and have them write up an estimate. I understand the cost of such a repair may not be the best route to go, it may help your case to at least have those numbers in your pocket.
02-13-2016, 06:21 PM
#32
You can call me Otis
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I hope Debbie IS ok, this must be a very traumatic time for her.
If it's any consolation, back in the day, late '80s early '90s, I worked at a private owned auto repair shop, we specialized in late model VW and Audi salvage restoration. I have rebuilt cars hit worse than this, I believe your car can be rebuilt.
Wishing the best for a speedy recovery.
If it's any consolation, back in the day, late '80s early '90s, I worked at a private owned auto repair shop, we specialized in late model VW and Audi salvage restoration. I have rebuilt cars hit worse than this, I believe your car can be rebuilt.
Wishing the best for a speedy recovery.
02-13-2016, 07:27 PM
#33
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Get the medical stuff sorted, if course. That's the most important part of any of this.
In my experience, FWIW, the best way to establish the losses is to identify a suitable replacement or three in the market. More is better since the perp's insurance co is going to do the same, and there will certainly be differences in the definitions of "suitable". Your low-mile, immaculate, garage-stored and full traceable history car might cost more to replace than the Craigslist or BAT barn-find projects that they offer as comps. Find your own comps quickly and submit your claim SAP based on those, as a pre-emptiv strike. It's then their duty to demonstrate why your examples aren't good, rather than you arguing up from their very low-ball initial offers.
Offer to go in front of a jury to explain how much the car that was "stolen" from you is worth, if you can't come to a realistic agreement.
Be sure to look carefully at the insurance you have. (applies to all of us.) Make sure your valuation with your company is adequate. Collector car insurance is often the same or lower than common auto policies, while allowing you negotiate premiums based on some replacement number determined in advance. There may by limitations placed on use and mileage, but everything is negotiable. What coverage did you buy for the car? You may find that you are whole from your own coverage; let your insurance go after the perp for their losses/payout, and you get to walk away while they do the scud work.
I'm not an attorney, blah blah blah, just a cynical previous victim.
In my experience, FWIW, the best way to establish the losses is to identify a suitable replacement or three in the market. More is better since the perp's insurance co is going to do the same, and there will certainly be differences in the definitions of "suitable". Your low-mile, immaculate, garage-stored and full traceable history car might cost more to replace than the Craigslist or BAT barn-find projects that they offer as comps. Find your own comps quickly and submit your claim SAP based on those, as a pre-emptiv strike. It's then their duty to demonstrate why your examples aren't good, rather than you arguing up from their very low-ball initial offers.
Offer to go in front of a jury to explain how much the car that was "stolen" from you is worth, if you can't come to a realistic agreement.
Be sure to look carefully at the insurance you have. (applies to all of us.) Make sure your valuation with your company is adequate. Collector car insurance is often the same or lower than common auto policies, while allowing you negotiate premiums based on some replacement number determined in advance. There may by limitations placed on use and mileage, but everything is negotiable. What coverage did you buy for the car? You may find that you are whole from your own coverage; let your insurance go after the perp for their losses/payout, and you get to walk away while they do the scud work.
I'm not an attorney, blah blah blah, just a cynical previous victim.
02-14-2016, 01:17 PM
#34
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Dins, Dr Bob is probably correct in his "non attorney, blah, blah, blah" sort of way when he advises the preemptive approach to the car's value and your claim. His advise about that coincides more with my pro active approach than does my own previous suggestion about waiting until after they make an offer. Add to that that over the years I have learned that in negotiations the first money on the table has the advantage. I recommend that you go with his suggestion rather than mine.
Some experience with clients in the past suggests that the insurance company is most likely to find some 928 for sale somewhere for about $4500 that they will hope to base your value on and to use to total you car and pay you pennies for it. I was thinking about the chance that they might go the other way, which is kind of what they did with one of my own cars, but that is much less likely. Go with Dr Bob's suggestion and with mine about getting out ahead of them with your valuations and your side of the case. He is right--that will put them on the defensive rather than you.
Keep in mind that the obligation of the tort feasor, the other driver in your case, is to make you whole. Even when you, or even they, find another car that is an 86.5, 5-speed, with under 50k miles for whatever value it might be, it is only comparable to what you bought when you bought yours'. To make you whole with it it is going to need the whole gamut of maintenance that you put into yours after you bought it, because we all know that they are almost always for sale only with extensive deferred maintenance. This is where you add up the dealership cost of doing all the deferred maintenance and adding that to the price of the car they will be trying to say is comparable; but only if it otherwise comparable.
So if another 928 happens to be found that has under 50K miles, if a 5 speed, and 86.5, and the paint is 8.5 or 9, you will be adding the dealership cost of everything you did to yours to otherwise make it comparable to yours. That will be the value of your car or the amount needed to replace yours if it is totaled. It will also be the value against which the cost of repair and diminished value will be compared to determine your damage if it is not totaled.
As we discussed, I think that even if they say it is totaled, and they can make a case for that on the numbers, it should be that that only limits your claim. I think you should be able to say it is not totaled, but I'll take the check based on that, less the residual value, and keep the car. I'm going to do some research on that and let you know what I find about them taking the car and selling it back with a salvage title.
Some experience with clients in the past suggests that the insurance company is most likely to find some 928 for sale somewhere for about $4500 that they will hope to base your value on and to use to total you car and pay you pennies for it. I was thinking about the chance that they might go the other way, which is kind of what they did with one of my own cars, but that is much less likely. Go with Dr Bob's suggestion and with mine about getting out ahead of them with your valuations and your side of the case. He is right--that will put them on the defensive rather than you.
Keep in mind that the obligation of the tort feasor, the other driver in your case, is to make you whole. Even when you, or even they, find another car that is an 86.5, 5-speed, with under 50k miles for whatever value it might be, it is only comparable to what you bought when you bought yours'. To make you whole with it it is going to need the whole gamut of maintenance that you put into yours after you bought it, because we all know that they are almost always for sale only with extensive deferred maintenance. This is where you add up the dealership cost of doing all the deferred maintenance and adding that to the price of the car they will be trying to say is comparable; but only if it otherwise comparable.
So if another 928 happens to be found that has under 50K miles, if a 5 speed, and 86.5, and the paint is 8.5 or 9, you will be adding the dealership cost of everything you did to yours to otherwise make it comparable to yours. That will be the value of your car or the amount needed to replace yours if it is totaled. It will also be the value against which the cost of repair and diminished value will be compared to determine your damage if it is not totaled.
As we discussed, I think that even if they say it is totaled, and they can make a case for that on the numbers, it should be that that only limits your claim. I think you should be able to say it is not totaled, but I'll take the check based on that, less the residual value, and keep the car. I'm going to do some research on that and let you know what I find about them taking the car and selling it back with a salvage title.
02-14-2016, 02:15 PM
#35
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I'm glade everyone is all right. The cars crush zones and safety cage appear to have worked as designed.
My experience, although limited to Canada, is that if they take the vehicle and it has frame damage then it has to be sold with a salvage tittle, things like fire and theft are a little more grey.
If however you keep the vehicle and agree on a the amount of damage that you have suffered, for which they give you a check, then the tittle remains clean.
Your insurance agent and or adjuster should be able to explain your options, based on jurisdiction.
Secondarily, I'm just about finished a Volvo that was written off because of a front end hit. Although my estimates on components for the frame was close, I'm seriously upside down because of soft parts, mainly plastic, like the fuse box, ECU box, filter box, and turbo piping, all had a crack or a broken tab, all added up to big costs.
The 928 doesn't have as much plastic, so it will be better, but there are parts other than the frame that have suffered, some just from the inertia of the crash. If you go ahead with the repair make sure you have room in the budget.
I do have to say that the actual frame repairs were much easier than I anticipated, had it pulled, cut off the damaged parts at the manufactured recommended, and mostly pre marked locations and welded it together. Having a one sided spot welder allowed for near factory quality.
Good luck
My experience, although limited to Canada, is that if they take the vehicle and it has frame damage then it has to be sold with a salvage tittle, things like fire and theft are a little more grey.
If however you keep the vehicle and agree on a the amount of damage that you have suffered, for which they give you a check, then the tittle remains clean.
Your insurance agent and or adjuster should be able to explain your options, based on jurisdiction.
Secondarily, I'm just about finished a Volvo that was written off because of a front end hit. Although my estimates on components for the frame was close, I'm seriously upside down because of soft parts, mainly plastic, like the fuse box, ECU box, filter box, and turbo piping, all had a crack or a broken tab, all added up to big costs.
The 928 doesn't have as much plastic, so it will be better, but there are parts other than the frame that have suffered, some just from the inertia of the crash. If you go ahead with the repair make sure you have room in the budget.
I do have to say that the actual frame repairs were much easier than I anticipated, had it pulled, cut off the damaged parts at the manufactured recommended, and mostly pre marked locations and welded it together. Having a one sided spot welder allowed for near factory quality.
Good luck
02-14-2016, 02:59 PM
#36
Rennlist Member
Life indeed can change very quickly. Happy to read your wife was not seriously injured and the car did its job and took the brunt of the impact.
My wife also had a minor accident yesterday, slipped while walking the dog, fell and broke her shoulder. Makes for interesting dressing manouvers.......we're suing the dog!!!
My wife also had a minor accident yesterday, slipped while walking the dog, fell and broke her shoulder. Makes for interesting dressing manouvers.......we're suing the dog!!!
02-14-2016, 05:00 PM
#38
Captain Obvious
Super User
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Dins, Dr Bob is probably correct in his "non attorney, blah, blah, blah" sort of way when he advises the preemptive approach to the car's value and your claim. His advise about that coincides more with my pro active approach than does my own previous suggestion about waiting until after they make an offer. Add to that that over the years I have learned that in negotiations the first money on the table has the advantage. I recommend that you go with his suggestion rather than mine.
Some experience with clients in the past suggests that the insurance company is most likely to find some 928 for sale somewhere for about $4500 that they will hope to base your value on and to use to total you car and pay you pennies for it. I was thinking about the chance that they might go the other way, which is kind of what they did with one of my own cars, but that is much less likely. Go with Dr Bob's suggestion and with mine about getting out ahead of them with your valuations and your side of the case. He is right--that will put them on the defensive rather than you.
Keep in mind that the obligation of the tort feasor, the other driver in your case, is to make you whole. Even when you, or even they, find another car that is an 86.5, 5-speed, with under 50k miles for whatever value it might be, it is only comparable to what you bought when you bought yours'. To make you whole with it it is going to need the whole gamut of maintenance that you put into yours after you bought it, because we all know that they are almost always for sale only with extensive deferred maintenance. This is where you add up the dealership cost of doing all the deferred maintenance and adding that to the price of the car they will be trying to say is comparable; but only if it otherwise comparable.
So if another 928 happens to be found that has under 50K miles, if a 5 speed, and 86.5, and the paint is 8.5 or 9, you will be adding the dealership cost of everything you did to yours to otherwise make it comparable to yours. That will be the value of your car or the amount needed to replace yours if it is totaled. It will also be the value against which the cost of repair and diminished value will be compared to determine your damage if it is not totaled.
As we discussed, I think that even if they say it is totaled, and they can make a case for that on the numbers, it should be that that only limits your claim. I think you should be able to say it is not totaled, but I'll take the check based on that, less the residual value, and keep the car. I'm going to do some research on that and let you know what I find about them taking the car and selling it back with a salvage title.
Some experience with clients in the past suggests that the insurance company is most likely to find some 928 for sale somewhere for about $4500 that they will hope to base your value on and to use to total you car and pay you pennies for it. I was thinking about the chance that they might go the other way, which is kind of what they did with one of my own cars, but that is much less likely. Go with Dr Bob's suggestion and with mine about getting out ahead of them with your valuations and your side of the case. He is right--that will put them on the defensive rather than you.
Keep in mind that the obligation of the tort feasor, the other driver in your case, is to make you whole. Even when you, or even they, find another car that is an 86.5, 5-speed, with under 50k miles for whatever value it might be, it is only comparable to what you bought when you bought yours'. To make you whole with it it is going to need the whole gamut of maintenance that you put into yours after you bought it, because we all know that they are almost always for sale only with extensive deferred maintenance. This is where you add up the dealership cost of doing all the deferred maintenance and adding that to the price of the car they will be trying to say is comparable; but only if it otherwise comparable.
So if another 928 happens to be found that has under 50K miles, if a 5 speed, and 86.5, and the paint is 8.5 or 9, you will be adding the dealership cost of everything you did to yours to otherwise make it comparable to yours. That will be the value of your car or the amount needed to replace yours if it is totaled. It will also be the value against which the cost of repair and diminished value will be compared to determine your damage if it is not totaled.
As we discussed, I think that even if they say it is totaled, and they can make a case for that on the numbers, it should be that that only limits your claim. I think you should be able to say it is not totaled, but I'll take the check based on that, less the residual value, and keep the car. I'm going to do some research on that and let you know what I find about them taking the car and selling it back with a salvage title.
02-14-2016, 06:20 PM
#39
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Hey Guys, Miss Debbie here.
I just wanted to personally thank everyone for all your well wishes and advise.
We are having trouble finding comps on low mileage 86.5's.
If any of you have one you would consider selling or any ideas where we can find comps, I would really appreciate it
Once again, thank you for all the support and advice.
Love ya'll
Miss Debbie
I just wanted to personally thank everyone for all your well wishes and advise.
We are having trouble finding comps on low mileage 86.5's.
If any of you have one you would consider selling or any ideas where we can find comps, I would really appreciate it
Once again, thank you for all the support and advice.
Love ya'll
Miss Debbie
Last edited by Dinsdale Piranha; 02-18-2016 at 11:15 AM.
02-14-2016, 06:44 PM
#40
Rennlist Member
I am announcing my '86.5 is for sale for $100,000.00. Feel free to offer that as a comparable car (actually, I'm sure it's not as nice as yours) for the insurance company 
02-14-2016, 06:54 PM
#41
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On the value, how did you have the car insured? If you had a stated value that can work for you.
Also I would expect Hagerty's to be a legitimate valuation tool after all they are an insurance company. You'd certainly have an argument that their values are a little behind given the $90,000 S4 on Ebay dwarfing their $47,000 value for the same car as a #1. Find a few examples that sold for more than Hagerty value, at any level and the story is even better.
Good luck
Also I would expect Hagerty's to be a legitimate valuation tool after all they are an insurance company. You'd certainly have an argument that their values are a little behind given the $90,000 S4 on Ebay dwarfing their $47,000 value for the same car as a #1. Find a few examples that sold for more than Hagerty value, at any level and the story is even better.
Good luck
02-14-2016, 06:59 PM
#42
Good news, is everyone oK
Bad News, you will have to deal with this insurance Co. To say they suck will be an absolute understatement. You will never get what the car is worth out of them. They will claim they do not have to fix your car to your specs, they will only give you the "fair" value for your car. One of the down sides with owing a classic car is that the ins co "fair" value is quite low. You will be shocked at how low it is.
They will tell you if you want to insure a classic car you should have gotten an agreed upon value policy. the one thing I can assure you is you will get high Blood Pressure, want to strangle the idiot on the other end of the phone conservation.
I hope I am wrong, but expect the worse, and find out what you can get on the other end. If they are not looking at medical claims, and only property, they will F with you. Good luck, and keep us posted.
Bad News, you will have to deal with this insurance Co. To say they suck will be an absolute understatement. You will never get what the car is worth out of them. They will claim they do not have to fix your car to your specs, they will only give you the "fair" value for your car. One of the down sides with owing a classic car is that the ins co "fair" value is quite low. You will be shocked at how low it is.
They will tell you if you want to insure a classic car you should have gotten an agreed upon value policy. the one thing I can assure you is you will get high Blood Pressure, want to strangle the idiot on the other end of the phone conservation.
I hope I am wrong, but expect the worse, and find out what you can get on the other end. If they are not looking at medical claims, and only property, they will F with you. Good luck, and keep us posted.
02-14-2016, 07:43 PM
#44
Captain Obvious
Super User
Super User
The adjuster doesn't give a flying F who the owner is. They work for the insurance company and that's all that matters to them. Doesn't matter if you try making friends with them, they are only there to estimate the cost of the damage and the condition of the car before it was in the collission.