Starting problem 928 1981 Euro
12-31-2015, 06:43 PM
#16
Team Owner
OK here is what I would do.
Install the original coil.
Get some deoxit 100 spray, amazon sells it,
Spray the front and back of the CE panel where the wires plug in.
Have a fresh XVI relay on hand
Remove the XVI relay for fuel injection and test the relay .
swap in a new relay if your old one doesnt test.
NOTE also have a fresh fuel pump relay on hand.
Remove the fuel pump relay and clean the pins and test it,
clean the internal contacts, use Deoxit .
NOTE put deoxit on the relay pins and open the cover,
and clean the internal contacts of the old relay.
Replace the fuel pump fuse with a fresh fuse.
Take the connector off the ignition box and deoxit the connector.
Take the green wire off the plug at the box and add the deoxit.
do the same at the distributor connection.
Deoxit the 2 resistor connections and test each resistor for the correct OHM reading.
Do the same for the 14 pin connector at the hot post.
Replace the ground strap at the battery.
Clean both of the battery terminals and any of the wires going to them.
Charge the battery with a 6 amp charger for 4 hours.
Remove the connections at the starter and the alternator clean all of them .
NOTE the battery should be disconnected for all of the electrical system inspection/ cleaning
Use the deoxit on every connection you touch then try to start the engine
Install the original coil.
Get some deoxit 100 spray, amazon sells it,
Spray the front and back of the CE panel where the wires plug in.
Have a fresh XVI relay on hand
Remove the XVI relay for fuel injection and test the relay .
swap in a new relay if your old one doesnt test.
NOTE also have a fresh fuel pump relay on hand.
Remove the fuel pump relay and clean the pins and test it,
clean the internal contacts, use Deoxit .
NOTE put deoxit on the relay pins and open the cover,
and clean the internal contacts of the old relay.
Replace the fuel pump fuse with a fresh fuse.
Take the connector off the ignition box and deoxit the connector.
Take the green wire off the plug at the box and add the deoxit.
do the same at the distributor connection.
Deoxit the 2 resistor connections and test each resistor for the correct OHM reading.
Do the same for the 14 pin connector at the hot post.
Replace the ground strap at the battery.
Clean both of the battery terminals and any of the wires going to them.
Charge the battery with a 6 amp charger for 4 hours.
Remove the connections at the starter and the alternator clean all of them .
NOTE the battery should be disconnected for all of the electrical system inspection/ cleaning
Use the deoxit on every connection you touch then try to start the engine
01-02-2016, 06:12 AM
#17
Advanced
Thread Starter
OK here is what I would do.
Install the original coil.
Get some deoxit 100 spray, amazon sells it,
Spray the front and back of the CE panel where the wires plug in.
Have a fresh XVI relay on hand
Remove the XVI relay for fuel injection and test the relay .
swap in a new relay if your old one doesnt test.
NOTE also have a fresh fuel pump relay on hand.
Remove the fuel pump relay and clean the pins and test it,
clean the internal contacts, use Deoxit .
NOTE put deoxit on the relay pins and open the cover,
and clean the internal contacts of the old relay.
Replace the fuel pump fuse with a fresh fuse.
Take the connector off the ignition box and deoxit the connector.
Take the green wire off the plug at the box and add the deoxit.
do the same at the distributor connection.
Deoxit the 2 resistor connections and test each resistor for the correct OHM reading.
Do the same for the 14 pin connector at the hot post.
Replace the ground strap at the battery.
Clean both of the battery terminals and any of the wires going to them.
Charge the battery with a 6 amp charger for 4 hours.
Remove the connections at the starter and the alternator clean all of them .
NOTE the battery should be disconnected for all of the electrical system inspection/ cleaning
Use the deoxit on every connection you touch then try to start the engine
Install the original coil.
Get some deoxit 100 spray, amazon sells it,
Spray the front and back of the CE panel where the wires plug in.
Have a fresh XVI relay on hand
Remove the XVI relay for fuel injection and test the relay .
swap in a new relay if your old one doesnt test.
NOTE also have a fresh fuel pump relay on hand.
Remove the fuel pump relay and clean the pins and test it,
clean the internal contacts, use Deoxit .
NOTE put deoxit on the relay pins and open the cover,
and clean the internal contacts of the old relay.
Replace the fuel pump fuse with a fresh fuse.
Take the connector off the ignition box and deoxit the connector.
Take the green wire off the plug at the box and add the deoxit.
do the same at the distributor connection.
Deoxit the 2 resistor connections and test each resistor for the correct OHM reading.
Do the same for the 14 pin connector at the hot post.
Replace the ground strap at the battery.
Clean both of the battery terminals and any of the wires going to them.
Charge the battery with a 6 amp charger for 4 hours.
Remove the connections at the starter and the alternator clean all of them .
NOTE the battery should be disconnected for all of the electrical system inspection/ cleaning
Use the deoxit on every connection you touch then try to start the engine
I have done as you suggested, and have come accross a bit of dodgy wiring in the process,
1. The connection to the spark box. One of the wires connected to the distributor was exposed and generaly looked dodgy. It appears that the cable connecting to the spark box (from distributor) is not a real double cable but a single cable with an outer protection of wire. I taped it up with electrical tape.
2. Next to the alternator there is a small cylinderical thing with 2 connections which connect to the alternator wires. One of the connections is not connected to anything.. I am not sure if that is normal.
01-02-2016, 11:56 AM
#18
Team Owner
OK the exposed wire is normal it is a shielding for the green signal wire .
NOTE a inspection of the green wire should be done for areas that may have damaged sheathing as this could cause the green signal wire to fail,
also inspect the green wire connector ends as these fail.
NOTE if the green wire has tan or brown outer sheathing or is damaged then it should be replaced.
NOTE the wire unplugged appears to be from the oil pressure sender,
one wire is for the gauge and the other is for the light.
If the wires are correct then turning on the key to run will make the gauge read zero as the engine isnt turning,
if it pegs the wires are reversed
Looking at the connector in the computer it appears that the connectors have gotten wet,
as there is corrosion on the wire/ connector use deoxit on these connections
NOTE a inspection of the green wire should be done for areas that may have damaged sheathing as this could cause the green signal wire to fail,
also inspect the green wire connector ends as these fail.
NOTE if the green wire has tan or brown outer sheathing or is damaged then it should be replaced.
NOTE the wire unplugged appears to be from the oil pressure sender,
one wire is for the gauge and the other is for the light.
If the wires are correct then turning on the key to run will make the gauge read zero as the engine isnt turning,
if it pegs the wires are reversed
Looking at the connector in the computer it appears that the connectors have gotten wet,
as there is corrosion on the wire/ connector use deoxit on these connections
01-02-2016, 02:31 PM
#19
Advanced
Thread Starter
OK the exposed wire is normal it is a shielding for the green signal wire .
NOTE a inspection of the green wire should be done for areas that may have damaged sheathing as this could cause the green signal wire to fail,
also inspect the green wire connector ends as these fail.
NOTE if the green wire has tan or brown outer sheathing or is damaged then it should be replaced.
NOTE the wire unplugged appears to be from the oil pressure sender,
one wire is for the gauge and the other is for the light.
If the wires are correct then turning on the key to run will make the gauge read zero as the engine isnt turning,
if it pegs the wires are reversed
Looking at the connector in the computer it appears that the connectors have gotten wet,
as there is corrosion on the wire/ connector use deoxit on these connections
NOTE a inspection of the green wire should be done for areas that may have damaged sheathing as this could cause the green signal wire to fail,
also inspect the green wire connector ends as these fail.
NOTE if the green wire has tan or brown outer sheathing or is damaged then it should be replaced.
NOTE the wire unplugged appears to be from the oil pressure sender,
one wire is for the gauge and the other is for the light.
If the wires are correct then turning on the key to run will make the gauge read zero as the engine isnt turning,
if it pegs the wires are reversed
Looking at the connector in the computer it appears that the connectors have gotten wet,
as there is corrosion on the wire/ connector use deoxit on these connections
Thanks a lot for the info by the way, big help
01-02-2016, 02:45 PM
#20
Team Owner
yes this is normal for the shielding wires to look this way where they are plugged into the box.
NOW what happens inside the green wire is this shielding corrodes from damaged insulation,
and thus the signal protection is compromised,
this then changes the signal the box gets and then the computer is not able to function
NOW what happens inside the green wire is this shielding corrodes from damaged insulation,
and thus the signal protection is compromised,
this then changes the signal the box gets and then the computer is not able to function
01-05-2016, 11:18 AM
#21
Advanced
Thread Starter
yes this is normal for the shielding wires to look this way where they are plugged into the box.
NOW what happens inside the green wire is this shielding corrodes from damaged insulation,
and thus the signal protection is compromised,
this then changes the signal the box gets and then the computer is not able to function
NOW what happens inside the green wire is this shielding corrodes from damaged insulation,
and thus the signal protection is compromised,
this then changes the signal the box gets and then the computer is not able to function
Ok thanks again. So what I am going to do is try replacing this wire. Not the green wire itself but the wire which subsequently connects to the green wire and then to the Spark box. I had another look at it on the weekend and it does look dodgy. So I will do this first so I can eliminate it from my diagnosis. Any tips on this..? I was just planning on finding a similar wire in the DIY store and hooking it up...
02-02-2016, 06:50 AM
#22
Advanced
Thread Starter
Update
Hi,
I have a starting problem with my 928 1981 Euro Automatic,
The engine cranks but there is no spark at all.
This happened around the time of very heavy rain and floods. The car was outside at that time. and there was water half way up the wheel.
Immediately after the floods it worked fine for a few weeks and then no start..
After a week or so of trying to start it it did randomly start again and I drove it for a few days and then I didnt use it for around a week and then no start at all.. Before the no start, perhaps before the floods (Cannot remember) I noticed something which had never happened before, which was the engine cut out at low revs just after starting, but then drove fine afterwards.. This happened on 1 or 2 occasions just before the no start problem..
For the last 10 days The car has been garaged and still no start
I have done the following:
- Checked Fuse 22
- Checked cut out automatic transmission Relay
- Replaced Battery
- Checked resistors to Ignition coil (Checked before and after and voltage is normal)
- Replaced Ignition Coil
- Checked ignition coil - distributor cable
- Replaced Distributor Cap
- Replaced Distributor Arm
- Checked spark leads
- Dried out distributor with a hair dryer..
- Checked green cable.. Visually looks good, fairly new.. Also checked for voltage and I get a reading of a few volts coming from the distributor (I talked with 928intl who said this would normally indicate a functional distributor)..
- Pulled out ignition module and the Checked resistance of sensor system as per workshop manual between terminals 7 & 31d. Checks out.. ok
From my trouble shooting the only thing that can be left to replace is the distributor and the ignition module. Is there anything else I missed? Also does any1 know how to test the the ignition module or the distributor before buying a new 1?
Many thanks
Leon
I have a starting problem with my 928 1981 Euro Automatic,
The engine cranks but there is no spark at all.
This happened around the time of very heavy rain and floods. The car was outside at that time. and there was water half way up the wheel.
Immediately after the floods it worked fine for a few weeks and then no start..
After a week or so of trying to start it it did randomly start again and I drove it for a few days and then I didnt use it for around a week and then no start at all.. Before the no start, perhaps before the floods (Cannot remember) I noticed something which had never happened before, which was the engine cut out at low revs just after starting, but then drove fine afterwards.. This happened on 1 or 2 occasions just before the no start problem..
For the last 10 days The car has been garaged and still no start
I have done the following:
- Checked Fuse 22
- Checked cut out automatic transmission Relay
- Replaced Battery
- Checked resistors to Ignition coil (Checked before and after and voltage is normal)
- Replaced Ignition Coil
- Checked ignition coil - distributor cable
- Replaced Distributor Cap
- Replaced Distributor Arm
- Checked spark leads
- Dried out distributor with a hair dryer..
- Checked green cable.. Visually looks good, fairly new.. Also checked for voltage and I get a reading of a few volts coming from the distributor (I talked with 928intl who said this would normally indicate a functional distributor)..
- Pulled out ignition module and the Checked resistance of sensor system as per workshop manual between terminals 7 & 31d. Checks out.. ok
From my trouble shooting the only thing that can be left to replace is the distributor and the ignition module. Is there anything else I missed? Also does any1 know how to test the the ignition module or the distributor before buying a new 1?
Many thanks
Leon
Just to give you an update on what happened with this:
Ignition Module!!
Yes I changed the Ignition Module and it worked first time!
So to recap The car was not starting. Cranking but no spark. Fuel pump working. I changed all the things that I mentioned in my original mail above (Battery, Distributor cap, Distributor rotor, Ignition Coil etc.) I also cleaned a lot of contacts and put new fuses in.
I had 3 things left in the Ignition system left to change: Distributor, Green Wire and Ignition Module.
I went with the Ignition Module as someone mentioned if the fuel pump is working then that means that the ignition module is sensing the distributor. Since my Fuel pump was working if this statement was true that that would mean the problem was not with the Distributor or green wire. And therefore must of been with the Ignition module. by the way I checked if the correct voltage was going to the Ignition Module and if there was continuity in the wire going from the Ignition Module to the Ignition Coil and all was ok.
Therefore logically the Ignition Module was not telling the Ignition Coil to work for an unknown reason (I.e not because it wasn't sensing the distributor or because it was not receiving correct voltage to function.)
So it must of been faulty and indeed that was the case.
Many people have told me that they are very reliable. I also read that they can break if there is a faulty alternator. We had some floods recently and I suspect my alternator was partly submerged in water, and also having checked afterwards the alternator wires were quite badly frayed, so perhaps it was that! It just seems strange that my Ignition Module broke so shortly after the floods, like 3 weeks after.. Coincidence..?
Fly Easy
Leon