Can a rusty gas tank ooze through the back seats?
12-21-2015, 03:10 PM
#31
Nordschleife Master
Oh my. Where to begin?
I'll start with "nice."
Welcome. It looks like a good starting point. You've come to the right place for these cars. The collective knowledge is virtually complete and the willingness to help is amazing.
You can ask any question, even the most basic, and there are very experienced, wise and patient folks on here who will help. I would suggest, however, that you not ignore their advice and suggestions.
And on to "not quite as nice."
You say you don't know about cars. And that you hope there isn't too much wrong with this one. And you want it to be your daily driver.
It's a 33 year old exotic supercar. It cost as much as a smallish house when it was new. And it's sat for 10 years.
Did you do any research on the 928 before buying one?
There's a saying that the most expensive Porsche to own is the cheapest to buy. (Not exclusive to Porsche). There's also the "Only $10k away from a $5k car."
That's because the parts and maintenance costs are appropriate for what the car cost to begin with. Not what you paid for it.
And because they haven't been produced in 20 years, all the factory trained techs are either retired or about to retire. Finding someone who knows how to work on them can be difficult.
Specific to your current issues:
The stuff inside is likely mold and/or critter issues. Pull the spare tire cover and look in there. Likely you have a nest. Likely chewed wires too.
Pull the back seats. The lower cushions are just glued in. They pull out without too much difficulty. The uppers bolt in, but are pretty easy to remove.
Pull the carpets, at least out of the back and back seats.
Pulling the front seats and the carpet up front is probably a good idea too.
Clean the interior really well.
The miss could be as simple as a bad spark plug or wire.
Or not. The bad compression numbers aren't encouraging. The fact that the car sat as long as it did is not a good thing. The coolant will turn acidic and eat away at the heads and the block. This damage can be repaired... Maybe.
What does your oil and coolant look like? If there's oil in the coolant, or coolant in the oil, you have problems.
Unfortunately, a "new motor" really isn't an option. In general, any motor you'd get would need a fair amount of work on it before you could trust it.
These are amazing cars. They can be very reliable. But they aren't cheap to own.
Good luck.
I'll start with "nice."
Welcome. It looks like a good starting point. You've come to the right place for these cars. The collective knowledge is virtually complete and the willingness to help is amazing.
You can ask any question, even the most basic, and there are very experienced, wise and patient folks on here who will help. I would suggest, however, that you not ignore their advice and suggestions.
And on to "not quite as nice."
You say you don't know about cars. And that you hope there isn't too much wrong with this one. And you want it to be your daily driver.
It's a 33 year old exotic supercar. It cost as much as a smallish house when it was new. And it's sat for 10 years.
Did you do any research on the 928 before buying one?
There's a saying that the most expensive Porsche to own is the cheapest to buy. (Not exclusive to Porsche). There's also the "Only $10k away from a $5k car."
That's because the parts and maintenance costs are appropriate for what the car cost to begin with. Not what you paid for it.
And because they haven't been produced in 20 years, all the factory trained techs are either retired or about to retire. Finding someone who knows how to work on them can be difficult.
Specific to your current issues:
The stuff inside is likely mold and/or critter issues. Pull the spare tire cover and look in there. Likely you have a nest. Likely chewed wires too.
Pull the back seats. The lower cushions are just glued in. They pull out without too much difficulty. The uppers bolt in, but are pretty easy to remove.
Pull the carpets, at least out of the back and back seats.
Pulling the front seats and the carpet up front is probably a good idea too.
Clean the interior really well.
The miss could be as simple as a bad spark plug or wire.
Or not. The bad compression numbers aren't encouraging. The fact that the car sat as long as it did is not a good thing. The coolant will turn acidic and eat away at the heads and the block. This damage can be repaired... Maybe.
What does your oil and coolant look like? If there's oil in the coolant, or coolant in the oil, you have problems.
Unfortunately, a "new motor" really isn't an option. In general, any motor you'd get would need a fair amount of work on it before you could trust it.
These are amazing cars. They can be very reliable. But they aren't cheap to own.
Good luck.
12-21-2015, 03:28 PM
#32
Rennlist Member
Well I for one am rooting for you
Stay plugged in here. Even if you do not do your own work, simply being knowledgeable about the potential causes of the various things that crop up can save you lots of money, because you can keep the mechanic focused on the most likely issues, rather than things that may or may not be relevant. Some of the more modern shops are simply parts shops - they pull and replace, but not repair, since that is faster and less expensive. The problem is they tend to not bother with good diagnosis, instead, opting to simply pull out old parts and throw in new parts hoping that the fix will be in there somewhere. Your knowledge is an antidote to that, and can save you thousands.
Stay plugged in here. Even if you do not do your own work, simply being knowledgeable about the potential causes of the various things that crop up can save you lots of money, because you can keep the mechanic focused on the most likely issues, rather than things that may or may not be relevant. Some of the more modern shops are simply parts shops - they pull and replace, but not repair, since that is faster and less expensive. The problem is they tend to not bother with good diagnosis, instead, opting to simply pull out old parts and throw in new parts hoping that the fix will be in there somewhere. Your knowledge is an antidote to that, and can save you thousands.
12-21-2015, 06:00 PM
#33
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Oh my. Where to begin?
I'll start with "nice."
Welcome. It looks like a good starting point. You've come to the right place for these cars. The collective knowledge is virtually complete and the willingness to help is amazing.
You can ask any question, even the most basic, and there are very experienced, wise and patient folks on here who will help. I would suggest, however, that you not ignore their advice and suggestions.
And on to "not quite as nice."
You say you don't know about cars. And that you hope there isn't too much wrong with this one. And you want it to be your daily driver.
It's a 33 year old exotic supercar. It cost as much as a smallish house when it was new. And it's sat for 10 years.
Did you do any research on the 928 before buying one?
There's a saying that the most expensive Porsche to own is the cheapest to buy. (Not exclusive to Porsche). There's also the "Only $10k away from a $5k car."
That's because the parts and maintenance costs are appropriate for what the car cost to begin with. Not what you paid for it.
And because they haven't been produced in 20 years, all the factory trained techs are either retired or about to retire. Finding someone who knows how to work on them can be difficult.
Specific to your current issues:
The stuff inside is likely mold and/or critter issues. Pull the spare tire cover and look in there. Likely you have a nest. Likely chewed wires too.
Pull the back seats. The lower cushions are just glued in. They pull out without too much difficulty. The uppers bolt in, but are pretty easy to remove.
Pull the carpets, at least out of the back and back seats.
Pulling the front seats and the carpet up front is probably a good idea too.
Clean the interior really well.
The miss could be as simple as a bad spark plug or wire.
Or not. The bad compression numbers aren't encouraging. The fact that the car sat as long as it did is not a good thing. The coolant will turn acidic and eat away at the heads and the block. This damage can be repaired... Maybe.
What does your oil and coolant look like? If there's oil in the coolant, or coolant in the oil, you have problems.
Unfortunately, a "new motor" really isn't an option. In general, any motor you'd get would need a fair amount of work on it before you could trust it.
These are amazing cars. They can be very reliable. But they aren't cheap to own.
Good luck.
I'll start with "nice."
Welcome. It looks like a good starting point. You've come to the right place for these cars. The collective knowledge is virtually complete and the willingness to help is amazing.
You can ask any question, even the most basic, and there are very experienced, wise and patient folks on here who will help. I would suggest, however, that you not ignore their advice and suggestions.
And on to "not quite as nice."
You say you don't know about cars. And that you hope there isn't too much wrong with this one. And you want it to be your daily driver.
It's a 33 year old exotic supercar. It cost as much as a smallish house when it was new. And it's sat for 10 years.
Did you do any research on the 928 before buying one?
There's a saying that the most expensive Porsche to own is the cheapest to buy. (Not exclusive to Porsche). There's also the "Only $10k away from a $5k car."
That's because the parts and maintenance costs are appropriate for what the car cost to begin with. Not what you paid for it.
And because they haven't been produced in 20 years, all the factory trained techs are either retired or about to retire. Finding someone who knows how to work on them can be difficult.
Specific to your current issues:
The stuff inside is likely mold and/or critter issues. Pull the spare tire cover and look in there. Likely you have a nest. Likely chewed wires too.
Pull the back seats. The lower cushions are just glued in. They pull out without too much difficulty. The uppers bolt in, but are pretty easy to remove.
Pull the carpets, at least out of the back and back seats.
Pulling the front seats and the carpet up front is probably a good idea too.
Clean the interior really well.
The miss could be as simple as a bad spark plug or wire.
Or not. The bad compression numbers aren't encouraging. The fact that the car sat as long as it did is not a good thing. The coolant will turn acidic and eat away at the heads and the block. This damage can be repaired... Maybe.
What does your oil and coolant look like? If there's oil in the coolant, or coolant in the oil, you have problems.
Unfortunately, a "new motor" really isn't an option. In general, any motor you'd get would need a fair amount of work on it before you could trust it.
These are amazing cars. They can be very reliable. But they aren't cheap to own.
Good luck.
12-21-2015, 06:02 PM
#34
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Thank you. My neighbor keeps telling me to do this too so this evening I am going to put one in there along with a mouse trap and see what happens.
12-21-2015, 06:06 PM
#35
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Well I for one am rooting for you
Stay plugged in here. Even if you do not do your own work, simply being knowledgeable about the potential causes of the various things that crop up can save you lots of money, because you can keep the mechanic focused on the most likely issues, rather than things that may or may not be relevant. Some of the more modern shops are simply parts shops - they pull and replace, but not repair, since that is faster and less expensive. The problem is they tend to not bother with good diagnosis, instead, opting to simply pull out old parts and throw in new parts hoping that the fix will be in there somewhere. Your knowledge is an antidote to that, and can save you thousands.
Stay plugged in here. Even if you do not do your own work, simply being knowledgeable about the potential causes of the various things that crop up can save you lots of money, because you can keep the mechanic focused on the most likely issues, rather than things that may or may not be relevant. Some of the more modern shops are simply parts shops - they pull and replace, but not repair, since that is faster and less expensive. The problem is they tend to not bother with good diagnosis, instead, opting to simply pull out old parts and throw in new parts hoping that the fix will be in there somewhere. Your knowledge is an antidote to that, and can save you thousands.
12-21-2015, 06:32 PM
#36
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Oh my. Where to begin?
I'll start with "nice."
Welcome. It looks like a good starting point. You've come to the right place for these cars. The collective knowledge is virtually complete and the willingness to help is amazing.
You can ask any question, even the most basic, and there are very experienced, wise and patient folks on here who will help. I would suggest, however, that you not ignore their advice and suggestions.
And on to "not quite as nice."
You say you don't know about cars. And that you hope there isn't too much wrong with this one. And you want it to be your daily driver.
It's a 33 year old exotic supercar. It cost as much as a smallish house when it was new. And it's sat for 10 years.
Did you do any research on the 928 before buying one?
There's a saying that the most expensive Porsche to own is the cheapest to buy. (Not exclusive to Porsche). There's also the "Only $10k away from a $5k car."
That's because the parts and maintenance costs are appropriate for what the car cost to begin with. Not what you paid for it.
And because they haven't been produced in 20 years, all the factory trained techs are either retired or about to retire. Finding someone who knows how to work on them can be difficult.
Specific to your current issues:
The stuff inside is likely mold and/or critter issues. Pull the spare tire cover and look in there. Likely you have a nest. Likely chewed wires too.
Pull the back seats. The lower cushions are just glued in. They pull out without too much difficulty. The uppers bolt in, but are pretty easy to remove.
Pull the carpets, at least out of the back and back seats.
Pulling the front seats and the carpet up front is probably a good idea too.
Clean the interior really well.
The miss could be as simple as a bad spark plug or wire.
Or not. The bad compression numbers aren't encouraging. The fact that the car sat as long as it did is not a good thing. The coolant will turn acidic and eat away at the heads and the block. This damage can be repaired... Maybe.
What does your oil and coolant look like? If there's oil in the coolant, or coolant in the oil, you have problems.
Unfortunately, a "new motor" really isn't an option. In general, any motor you'd get would need a fair amount of work on it before you could trust it.
These are amazing cars. They can be very reliable. But they aren't cheap to own.
Good luck.
I'll start with "nice."
Welcome. It looks like a good starting point. You've come to the right place for these cars. The collective knowledge is virtually complete and the willingness to help is amazing.
You can ask any question, even the most basic, and there are very experienced, wise and patient folks on here who will help. I would suggest, however, that you not ignore their advice and suggestions.
And on to "not quite as nice."
You say you don't know about cars. And that you hope there isn't too much wrong with this one. And you want it to be your daily driver.
It's a 33 year old exotic supercar. It cost as much as a smallish house when it was new. And it's sat for 10 years.
Did you do any research on the 928 before buying one?
There's a saying that the most expensive Porsche to own is the cheapest to buy. (Not exclusive to Porsche). There's also the "Only $10k away from a $5k car."
That's because the parts and maintenance costs are appropriate for what the car cost to begin with. Not what you paid for it.
And because they haven't been produced in 20 years, all the factory trained techs are either retired or about to retire. Finding someone who knows how to work on them can be difficult.
Specific to your current issues:
The stuff inside is likely mold and/or critter issues. Pull the spare tire cover and look in there. Likely you have a nest. Likely chewed wires too.
Pull the back seats. The lower cushions are just glued in. They pull out without too much difficulty. The uppers bolt in, but are pretty easy to remove.
Pull the carpets, at least out of the back and back seats.
Pulling the front seats and the carpet up front is probably a good idea too.
Clean the interior really well.
The miss could be as simple as a bad spark plug or wire.
Or not. The bad compression numbers aren't encouraging. The fact that the car sat as long as it did is not a good thing. The coolant will turn acidic and eat away at the heads and the block. This damage can be repaired... Maybe.
What does your oil and coolant look like? If there's oil in the coolant, or coolant in the oil, you have problems.
Unfortunately, a "new motor" really isn't an option. In general, any motor you'd get would need a fair amount of work on it before you could trust it.
These are amazing cars. They can be very reliable. But they aren't cheap to own.
Good luck.
Pulled back the seats and they werent bad but there was condensation back there
12-21-2015, 06:40 PM
#37
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My 87 Sat for 8yrs in California weather under a tree.
The 2nd owner picked it up in 2001, and it took $14k in P&L to get it acceptable.
Before I bought it last Spring, he had spent a total in $47,041.76, of which $22,126.13 was labor alone.
The car's last owner before me did not have the tools/time to do it, so this was his route to happiness, it wasn't a bad thing, it's just what worked for him.
The car still needs these things to be 'right' and 'caught up'.
So.._I_ am still $20k away from where I want to be, even with all of the PO's restoration and major component catch-up work (and it's fantastic where it was done), and I will do much of this labor myself.
Your car is saveable..just make a list of what needs done whether you know it or not, and pick em off one at a time.
And..have fun, it really kinda is.
The 2nd owner picked it up in 2001, and it took $14k in P&L to get it acceptable.
Before I bought it last Spring, he had spent a total in $47,041.76, of which $22,126.13 was labor alone.
The car's last owner before me did not have the tools/time to do it, so this was his route to happiness, it wasn't a bad thing, it's just what worked for him.
The car still needs these things to be 'right' and 'caught up'.
- Leaking brake bias valve (or ABS unit, not sure yet)
- Leaking PS tank rubber hosts
- A/C system needs fully re-ringed and refreshed (updated hoses, drier, etc)
- ABS ground or wiring issue
- Complete paint job (has been 1/2 resprayed in the past, found the bondo work)
- Top-End refresh..nothing is wrong, just OEM parts peeling and "should be done"
- Door and hatch seals
- New Cruise Control ECU
- Repair/refresh Dash Pod (speedo gear + LED light update)
So.._I_ am still $20k away from where I want to be, even with all of the PO's restoration and major component catch-up work (and it's fantastic where it was done), and I will do much of this labor myself.
Your car is saveable..just make a list of what needs done whether you know it or not, and pick em off one at a time.
And..have fun, it really kinda is.
12-21-2015, 06:45 PM
#38
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Does the air coming out of the vents smell sweet-ish? Does the fog on the windows feel like just water, or is it slightly "sticky" and leave a residue when you wipe it away? Do a search on heater core leaks to get an idea of what could be happening, and what to look for.
Don't be afraid to ask questions. You might get some smart-aleck responses, but plow through them because it's the only way to learn. Also don't put too much stock in your inspection report. Don't think that something might not be a problem because it wasn't listed there. Cars are huge machines with many, many subsystems. A lot of problems aren't obvious and can't be diagnosed with a quick look-over, which is what you seemed to have gotten with your inspection.
But FYI, I'm over $5k into a car that was already a daily driver with some minor deferred maintenance, and that's just parts cost since it's all DIY so far.
Don't be afraid to ask questions. You might get some smart-aleck responses, but plow through them because it's the only way to learn. Also don't put too much stock in your inspection report. Don't think that something might not be a problem because it wasn't listed there. Cars are huge machines with many, many subsystems. A lot of problems aren't obvious and can't be diagnosed with a quick look-over, which is what you seemed to have gotten with your inspection.
But FYI, I'm over $5k into a car that was already a daily driver with some minor deferred maintenance, and that's just parts cost since it's all DIY so far.
12-21-2015, 06:56 PM
#39
Rennlist Member
I would go ahead and remove those rear seat cushions so they can dry out fully.
I can't wait to hear what kind of animal is leaving hair all over the inside of your car.
I can't wait to hear what kind of animal is leaving hair all over the inside of your car.
12-21-2015, 07:00 PM
#40
Nordschleife Master
Hi Joe. I did very little research about the car before I bought it. I was looking for a small car to run around town in that was inexpensive and a lot of 944 models surfaced. I was interested in one but it had mileage upward of 200k. I dont drive much so in a 4 yr period I'd likely only put 45k miles on it. After doing more searches, the 928 popped up and it had over 100k less miles on it than the 944. I ended up going with the 928. I did do some searches and read around a bit but what I found was 928 owners debunking myths about the vehicle being overly complicated and expensive to service etc. Also there was an overall consensus that they're great cars and owners really love them so I felt I'd found a bargain.
They are not, however, cheap to own. Especially if you are paying someone else to turn the wrenches. Even turning my own wrenches, parts are priced "up there." Take a look at the water pump thread for an idea. Factory Porsche is around $1000. Good alternatives run around $500. Good fuel lines will cost a lot too.
Both are probably things your car needs. Timing belt & water pump are one job.. What we call an "Intake Refresh" is probably also needed. It replaces intake gaskets, fuel lines, vacuum lines, a few sensors and other "odds and ends" on top of the motor.
For your car (16 valve motor) those 2 jobs will run upwards of $4k in parts alone. Maybe more, depending on what you find when it gets taken apart.
Even a 944 isn't cheap to own. Even though they are often less expensive to buy than a 928. Similarly, a TB/WP job on the 2.5 will run well over a grand in parts.
Please understand I'm not trying to scare you off. I'm just trying to make you understand the reality of owning an exotic. It is NOT a Corolla.
Glad to hear the mold under the seats wasn't all that bad. Pull everything out that you can, see what's hiding under everything and dry it out. Something to remember is that the sunroof is notorious for dumping water into the car. It doesn't really seal, it directs water into the "gutter" around the opening and then down drains in the corners. Those drains will get plugged up over time and then the water ends up inside the car. There's plenty of info on how to clean them on here (a very good writeup on the sunroof mechanicals is in the "New Visitor" sticky, near the end).
As Linderpat (Ed) noted, please stick around. The 'usual suspects' on here will be a valuable resource, even if you have the work done at a shop. We're suckers for a good "rescue" story. This car, at first glance, seems to have what we call "good bones" and may be a decent car with some work.
12-21-2015, 09:09 PM
#41
Nordschleife Master
Agree with Joe on all points.
That source of water is likely from clogged sunroof drains. If heater core, you'd likely see tinted staining of your front carpet under the center console and footwells. Remove the rear seat cushions (easy), and I'd remove the carpet (lot to do with this), and put it in the washing machine. Search, as there are posts on this (dr bob had a good one). Warm water, soap, and not a harsh cycle wash will do. Right before it's going to spin dry stop it and be sure it is placed evenly and as flat as possible before it gets to speed. Sun dry (while hanging is preferential).
Yes, hang in there. This, I find, is a great pastime and rewarding to do. This Forum is the place to do it.
Best Wishes.
That source of water is likely from clogged sunroof drains. If heater core, you'd likely see tinted staining of your front carpet under the center console and footwells. Remove the rear seat cushions (easy), and I'd remove the carpet (lot to do with this), and put it in the washing machine. Search, as there are posts on this (dr bob had a good one). Warm water, soap, and not a harsh cycle wash will do. Right before it's going to spin dry stop it and be sure it is placed evenly and as flat as possible before it gets to speed. Sun dry (while hanging is preferential).
Yes, hang in there. This, I find, is a great pastime and rewarding to do. This Forum is the place to do it.
Best Wishes.
12-21-2015, 09:11 PM
#42
Burning Brakes
Something is stick to the windows in the back that wont come off and it is a bit sticky or greasy.
Moister is a separate problem and as others have mentioned, you may have something big breathing inside there.
Remove the spare tire and open the battery compartment. If you're lucky, it's full of water due to a bad hatch seal and your car is not a vermin filled bio-hazard.
Had a similar issue with a used Olds Bravada I bought years ago. Felt damp inside and windows always fogged in the morning.
I noticed I could fill the washer tank and the next day it would be nearly empty. No leakage under the car so it was kind of baffling. Rear window washer didn't have much flow. Pulled the cargo carpet up and a hose connection at the floor had split which allowed all the fluid above that level in the tank to leak out. The insulation under the carpet soaked it up like a sponge and the carpet's rubber backing kept it concealed. Was probably going on for years and caused a lot of damage. I pumped many gallons out of a rear frame rail and it even absorbed into sound insulation which soon caused a quarter panel to start rotting from the inside out. One fixed and dried out, the window condensation went away.
12-21-2015, 09:44 PM
#43
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Small puddle but I know there's more getting in because the hatch window is always drenched
12-21-2015, 11:03 PM
#44
Nordschleife Master
Bad hatch seal is pretty straight forward to replace. I'm pretty sure Roger sells them.
"Roger" is Roger Tyson. ROG100 on here. Parts supplier extrodinare. Runs 928s R Us, one of the more well known and respected parts vendors. You will get to know him if you keep the car.
"Roger" is Roger Tyson. ROG100 on here. Parts supplier extrodinare. Runs 928s R Us, one of the more well known and respected parts vendors. You will get to know him if you keep the car.
12-21-2015, 11:55 PM
#45
Rennlist Member
Hang with us buddy, and don't give up on her....we will get you through to the other side! Both of mine were basket cases, but they are slowly coming back to life......its doable. Good luck