rosenfe

im interested in the simpler method not dropping crossmember as detailed in another thread.
it was suggested to use copper wire to secure gasket to pan while installing.does that mean making loops through pan bolt holes around the gasket and putting bolts in then removing them after they are in lightly.that doesnt make sense to me.or am i totally misunderstanding how copper wire is used?

how many have put their gaskets in without dropping crossmember?

rosenfe

i meant to say remove copper wire once bolt is lightly secured.

dr bob

Put the wire in alternate holes. Bolts go in the holes without the wire. Pull the wires, insert the bolts in those holes too, and you are golden. The wire is used to keep the gasket positiond on the flage/face/gasket surface of the oil pan as you move things around during the work.

If you follow Mr Merlins method, you'll drop the pan down the available inch or so to the crossmmber, remove the old gasket with the pan sitting on the crossmember. Then put the new gasket up onto the face of the pan, securing it with the wire as you push the gasket into the correct position. Then the sump, gasket and the wires all go up loosely to the girdle, and you start the bolts through the wire-less holes. then cut the wires and pull them out, putting a bolt in each hole afetr the wire is pulled out. With all bolts in and all wires out, only then draw the pan and gasket up to contact the girdle.

James Bailey

Be sure to observe the proper torque depending on which gasket you use...

rosenfe

which gasket do you recommend ? can you even get a torque wrench in there without removing crossmember and in what sequence do you tighten bolts?

Mrmerlin

if you use single strands of the copper wire,
the bolts can be put into every hole of the pan with the wire in place,
once the bolts are in a turn or so then remove the wire ,
it easily pulls free from each hole even with the bolts in place
NOTE I put the wire in about every 4th hole

GlenL

Not enough room on a lot of the bolts to use a torque wrench. You have to do it by hand and the torque is light. That way you don't bend the pan, or squeeze out the gasket, and create leaks.

Get all the bolts in and the go around and around until the torque is steady. I use 4 or 5 passes. You'll find that on each pass the bolts are "loose" again. This effect diminishes on each pass. Don't get excited or frustrated and crank the bolts down hard. It is a tough job on the back and all but do you want to mess it up and be back down there?

A key tool for this is a 10mm ratcheting wrench. Get one in advance.

rosenfe

any thought about gasket choice and is any sealent used on gasket?

James Bailey

Use a torque wrench on the few that you can, then "learn" how that feels as you move to the hard to reach ones. Resist the urge to over torque. I would use the old style cork based gasket and that is what is on my old very brown 1980....

GlenL

It's made to go on dry but many use a light coating of sealant on both sides. I use black RTV silicone. Some use Yammabond. Search for long discussions.

dr bob

Using sealant precludes replacement in the future without dropping the crossmember. Weeping sealant from around a gasket looks pretty hillbilly (in the context MK suggested) in my opinion. If the surfaces are clean above and below, there's absolutely no reason to use any sealer on the gasket.

I like the composite (cork/neoprene) gasket myself, and have used them with great success. In my opinion, getting the bolt tension correct is a lot easierr with a gasket that doesn't flow out between the bolts with the slightest bit of extra bolt tension. Meamwhile, I've successfully installed the silicone gaskets in clinic cars, with the studs and locknuts, using a handy torque screwdriver with a 1/4" square-drive attachment. Tension was 12 lbs/in over the breakaway torque on the locknuts. The nuts that I couldn't get to with the torque screwdriver were drawn up until contact, plus one or two wrench flats, only after the accessible nuts wee at their final position. How did I come up with the screwdriver setting? Find the breakaway number with the tool, the value that is just high enough that the tool doesn't release while tightening the nuts before any contact with the sump. Then draw them all up evenly, watching to see whhen the gasket starts to squish out. Back off a few lbs/inch from that, loosen the nuts a little and tighten them all evenly with the corrected setting.

You can do it in a similar fashion by watching when the nuts are all just tight enough to get full gasket contact with the girdle and the sump. Then two more flats (1/3 of a turn on a hex nut) seemed about right. The silicone gaskets are pretty particular about tension on the fasteners. Once set with locking fasteners, they seem to do well.