When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.
Mine is not a very early '87. No folding wing for example.
The timing belt cover does have a notch. You can see it in post 3 above. I think that's the notch you are referring to.
I believe that when the timing belt was done, the older style waterpump was used. Even though the work order shows the correct '87 and onward part number. 928 106 015 MX.
My only concern now is whether I need to proactively change this pump, or let it be for now. The vehicle has about 7500 miles on it since the timing belt and waterpump change. It is running great. Unless I hear a great reason as to why I need to change it, I am just going to leave it at least for another 10k miles. That's my plan.
The brace was added to prevent bending of the threaded portion of pivot bolt for the tensioner arm. Were it me, I'd pull the passenger side upper timing cover and take a look at the pivot and the brace bracket. Would be a shame to have the bolt shear from over tension/no brace support and get the fun of a head/valve job.
You cannot install a pre-'87 pump on an '87 or newer. (Well, you can, but you'll need every other bit for the whole tensioner system if you don't want to shred your engine or you'll need to go PorkinTensioner.)
Diagnosis is, otherwise, correct: the 'loose' item is the brace for the main tensioner roller.
Early '87s didn't have the brace. Late '87s do. Sometimes.
It appears that the center belt cover does indeed have the notch for the brace. The brace and center belt cover is the only difference for late vs. early '87/88+ as far as the timing belt system is concerned.
You need to get that brace properly bolted RSN. The pivot bolt on the S4+ pumps really wants to have that brace to keep it from bending due to carrying the full tension of the belt's main roller.
It has three bolts. The lower is a Allen-keyed machine screw that attaches the brace to the tensioner roller carrier pivot bolt. The middle bolts though the belt cover. The upper bolts to the water pump.
You cannot install a pre-'87 pump on an '87 or newer. (Well, you can, but you'll need every other bit for the whole tensioner system if you don't want to shred your engine or you'll need to go PorkinTensioner.)
Diagnosis is, otherwise, correct: the 'loose' item is the brace for the main tensioner roller.
Early '87s didn't have the brace. Late '87s do. Sometimes.
It appears that the center belt cover does indeed have the notch for the brace. The brace and center belt cover is the only difference for late vs. early '87/88+ as far as the timing belt system is concerned.
You need to get that brace properly bolted RSN. The pivot bolt on the S4+ pumps really wants to have that brace to keep it from bending due to carrying the full tension of the belt's main roller.
It has three bolts. The lower is a Allen-keyed machine screw that attaches the brace to the tensioner roller carrier pivot bolt. The middle bolts though the belt cover. The upper bolts to the water pump.
Bolded is not possible with the existing water pump. There is simply no hole there for the bolt for the brace. I guess the correct answer is to replace the 7500 mile old waterpump?!?
You cannot install a pre-'87 pump on an '87 or newer. (Well, you can, but you'll need every other bit for the whole tensioner system if you don't want to shred your engine or you'll need to go PorkinTensioner.)
Diagnosis is, otherwise, correct: the 'loose' item is the brace for the main tensioner roller.
Early '87s didn't have the brace. Late '87s do. Sometimes.
It appears that the center belt cover does indeed have the notch for the brace. The brace and center belt cover is the only difference for late vs. early '87/88+ as far as the timing belt system is concerned.
You need to get that brace properly bolted RSN. The pivot bolt on the S4+ pumps really wants to have that brace to keep it from bending due to carrying the full tension of the belt's main roller.
It has three bolts. The lower is a Allen-keyed machine screw that attaches the brace to the tensioner roller carrier pivot bolt. The middle bolts though the belt cover. The upper bolts to the water pump.
Dave,
The installed waterpump does not have the additional hole for the bolt for the brace. The thing that doesn't make sense is that the work order shows the part number 928 106 015 MX which appears to be for an '87. I guess it's possible that the incorrect earlier version of the pump was shipped to the wrench that did the work?
So the likely requirement is to replace the existing waterpump in your opinion to be on the safe side?
Cameron, without taking off the center belt cover and seeing what's under it with my own eyes, or seeing some good 'naked' pictures of the whole system, its hard to say exactly what you need to do.
It may be as simple as getting a pivot bolt from a later pump that's threaded. There are plenty of those lying around.
There are a lot of questions I have though...
If the pivot bolt can't take the bolt for the lower part of the brace then what's retaining the brace? Because the middle and top of the brace isn't bolted to anything obvious.
If you do have an earlier pump, then you must also have an earlier tensioner roller carrier and, possibly (this I don't remember because who mixes and matches tensioner parts?) an entire early tensioner.
But if you have an earlier pump, why do you have a later center belt cover?
Basically: WTF?
If the belt tension is exactly where you left it when the belt was retentioned then you can possibly leave this for a while. If the belt is loose then you've got a problem. If you don't have a reference then check the tension now and again in ~1000 miles and see if it's the same or loose.
You'll have to do something to make it right. But, before decide what that is, you/we/us need to figure out exactly WFT is under the belt cover.
The installed waterpump does not have the additional hole for the bolt for the brace.
Here's where I'm losing you: for which hole in the brace is there no matching threaded hole? (The brace in your picture is not where it is supposed to be...)
I will go out, presently to the garage and look at various bits just to make sure I haven't mis-remembered something...
This is how it is supposed to look before the center belt cover goes on. The middle hole in the brace get's the center bolt for the center timing belt cover.
In your pictures, I can't understand how the brace is in the location it's at...
Actually, I take that back. It's the angle that makes it look like it's not in the right spot. And it does now look like your pump doesn't have the boss that could be threaded for the top hole in the brace.
Maybe you've got a unicorn pump casting: '87+ for '87+ tensioner and roller carrier, just without the boss in the casting for the top hole in the brace?
You can loosen the center belt cover without removing the belts and pulley, pull it back just enough to get a look-see at the bottom fastener. If the bottom and middle bolts of the brace are where they should be (middle when cover fastened, obviously) be then you're probably good. I'd still make sure to get a baseline and +1000 mile tension reading to be really sure.
Your picture is helpful. I have noted with a red arrow the hole that my waterpump does not have. If you look back to post number 6 in this thread, you can see why I believe that my car has a pre '87 or early '87 waterpump, since they did not have that hole. The timing belt and waterpump were done in January 2013. I acquired the vehicle in December 2014 and have been driving it for a year. Total mileage since waterpump and timing belt were done is about 7500 miles. Total mileage on vehicle is about 25k miles.
I agree with your other comment. The only way to know what to do is to get the timing belt cover off and have a look. One question. You said that:
"You can loosen the center belt cover without removing the belts and pulley, pull it back just enough to get a look-see at the bottom fastener".
Can that be done without removing the electric fans and top radiator hose? Or am I into removing those to have a proper look?
I have noted with a red arrow the hole that my waterpump does not have. If you look back to post number 6 ...
Yeah, I figured that out. You may have the unicorn pump.
One question. You said that:
"You can loosen the center belt cover without removing the belts and pulley, pull it back just enough to get a look-see at the bottom fastener".
Can that be done without removing the electric fans and top radiator hose? Or am I into removing those to have a proper look?
Maybe. If you've got the right tools and flexible limbs. It's not something I've given a lot of thought. Regardless...
... the first step is to remove the right-side (passenger side on LHD) belt cover. You might at the point be able to see if the rest of the belt system looks like the picture I posted. If it does and if that center bolt on the center cover goes through the brace then you're good and proceed with getting a tension measurement to either baseline or compare with your last measurement.
If it isn't obviously like what I posted then you'll need to remove more center cover fasteners to get it loose. You may need to loosen or remove the left-side belt cover. You'll probably need to loosen the front lift loop too.
At some point you'll be convinced that with the exception of the missing hole in the pump casting everything else is OK. Or you'll see more weirdness and you may need to go further to get good pics.
Cameron, without taking off the center belt cover and seeing what's under it with my own eyes, or seeing some good 'naked' pictures of the whole system, its hard to say exactly what you need to do.
It may be as simple as getting a pivot bolt from a later pump that's threaded. There are plenty of those lying around.
There are a lot of questions I have though...
If the pivot bolt can't take the bolt for the lower part of the brace then what's retaining the brace? Because the middle and top of the brace isn't bolted to anything obvious.
Dave,
Just wanted to clarify something that you may have already figured out. But it addressed the bolded from one of your earlier posts. The middle of the brace on my car is bolted to the waterpump. Only the top brace bolt is missing because there is no place for a bolt to screw into.
Here is a pic with an explanation. You can also see the bolt clearly in post number 2 with pic in this thread. And upon close visual inspection, I am certain that the bolt passes through the brace into the waterpump at that location.
I believe what I have are the bottom and middle bolts of the brace connected and where they should be, with the upper bolt missing due to no threaded hole on the waterpump at the upper location.
In order to confirm on the bottom bolt, I will need to pull back the timing belt cover to be able to visually inspect the lower connecting point (brace to idler arm connection point) to see if it is correct. I will check belt tension as well.
That's the plan. Thanks for the help.
Curious if Porsche issued a TSB or anything for early '87's to add the brace? Anyone know?
11-01-2015, 09:50 PM
