View Poll Results: Would You Supercharge Your 928 for $3600? You can.
I would buy an N1
6
24.00%
I would buy an IC1
7
28.00%
I would buy an IC2
3
12.00%
I would buy an IC3
9
36.00%
Voters: 25. You may not vote on this poll
The 928 Can Be Supercharged for $3600
09-11-2003, 03:37 PM
#16
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Originally posted by PeteS
Good point. I know that depending on what model of Vortech you get, some are surprisingly loud, while others you can barely hear.
Q4?
Andy: Back when you were working on this project you mentioned that the blower was pretty loud. How loud are the systems you're proposing? Are these different designs or blowers now that are quieter?
Good point. I know that depending on what model of Vortech you get, some are surprisingly loud, while others you can barely hear.
Q4?
Andy: Back when you were working on this project you mentioned that the blower was pretty loud. How loud are the systems you're proposing? Are these different designs or blowers now that are quieter?
http://www.grapeaperacing.com/GrapeA...supertypes.cfm
-Joel.
09-11-2003, 03:55 PM
#17
Instructor
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 183
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I know that this is a totally different style of supercharger that's being talked about now. I was wondering about the noise of these types because of what was said a while back in the process of getting things figured out on Andy's car:
That's what I was referring to, and was wondering if that's still the case with the latest setup.
Originally posted by GoRideSno
I think I actually have a working system now. There is one obviously very big problem now. The roots being before the throttle is EXTREMELY loud. It is so loud the I think I angered the neighbors.
I think I actually have a working system now. There is one obviously very big problem now. The roots being before the throttle is EXTREMELY loud. It is so loud the I think I angered the neighbors.
Originally posted by GoRideSno
The BOV does make some noise but the noise that is so loud is from the rotors. It sounds like a toy helicopter.
The BOV does make some noise but the noise that is so loud is from the rotors. It sounds like a toy helicopter.
09-11-2003, 10:34 PM
#18
Three Wheelin'
Sounds like you're making good progress Andy! 
When are you going to have a dyno sheet for us?
It's not necessarily for the peak numbers since as you know, they can be pretty accurately predicted in advance for a given amount of boost. What’s more important to us centrifugal guys though is what the actual horsepower and torque curves look like with the roots with respect to the centrifugal on the 928.
For anyone who’s contemplating a supercharger, I am sure that whatever choice you make here, you will be more than pleased with the additional performance, and it will be almost impossible to wipe the grin off your face after the first ride!
With that said however, I would encourage anyone who's seriously contemplating a supercharger, if at all possible, to spend the extra money on the intercooler as it will prove to be money well spent.
I say that because for any given supercharger speed, the air going into the engine will be denser, thus able to pack more of it into the cylinders, resulting in more horsepower; it’s almost like ‘free’ horsepower.
Good luck!
When are you going to have a dyno sheet for us?
It's not necessarily for the peak numbers since as you know, they can be pretty accurately predicted in advance for a given amount of boost. What’s more important to us centrifugal guys though is what the actual horsepower and torque curves look like with the roots with respect to the centrifugal on the 928.
For anyone who’s contemplating a supercharger, I am sure that whatever choice you make here, you will be more than pleased with the additional performance, and it will be almost impossible to wipe the grin off your face after the first ride!
With that said however, I would encourage anyone who's seriously contemplating a supercharger, if at all possible, to spend the extra money on the intercooler as it will prove to be money well spent.
I say that because for any given supercharger speed, the air going into the engine will be denser, thus able to pack more of it into the cylinders, resulting in more horsepower; it’s almost like ‘free’ horsepower.
Good luck!
09-11-2003, 11:18 PM
#20
Three Wheelin'
Just curious how the fuel system would have to be modified on a 16 valve to make this work. I suppose that isn't the best way to put it. I'm just wondering what needs to be done to the fuel system. I mean, with a carb, this project is a nobrainer. But this is injection.
Any thots?
Any thots?
09-11-2003, 11:33 PM
#21
Racer
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: San Pedro
Posts: 442
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
To all,
I have ridden in this car, and seen the set up, maybe I'll get to drive it this weekend... right Andy?
Anyway the charger is not loud at all. I have an RMB on my car and while riding in his car his car sounds stock while mine does not. To be precise he car is quiet... or I am deaf!!!
As far as 16V cars... Andy is very intelligent and has an uncanny/ practical sense of how to think through problems... so he could figure it out. Keep in mind that his car is a 32 V S-4 so that is what he currently knows best and is his test bed for his system.
Chris W
I have ridden in this car, and seen the set up, maybe I'll get to drive it this weekend... right Andy?
Anyway the charger is not loud at all. I have an RMB on my car and while riding in his car his car sounds stock while mine does not. To be precise he car is quiet... or I am deaf!!!
As far as 16V cars... Andy is very intelligent and has an uncanny/ practical sense of how to think through problems... so he could figure it out. Keep in mind that his car is a 32 V S-4 so that is what he currently knows best and is his test bed for his system.
Chris W
09-11-2003, 11:55 PM
#22
Three Wheelin'
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Hudson Valley NY
Posts: 1,641
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Andy,
How munch air and at what, max RPM can a whipple pump, the AMG helical super changer can pump 2646lbs of air per hr.At 20.700 rpms. They claim 30 percent higher than comparable systems.
How munch air and at what, max RPM can a whipple pump, the AMG helical super changer can pump 2646lbs of air per hr.At 20.700 rpms. They claim 30 percent higher than comparable systems.
09-12-2003, 12:25 AM
#23
Drifting
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Redondo Beach, CA>>>>Atlanta,GA
Posts: 2,015
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Here are the answers to the questions so far.
Q1: Any plans involving the 16 valve cars?
A:If I sell a few of these for the 32 I will buy a 16 valver and design a kit for. I have been wanting to do one for a while.
Q2: Any pics of the complete install yet?
A: This is the prototype system I am running now. It will look much cleaner when completed. Hacker-Pschor, I took this shot just for you.
Q3: Does it require a hood scoop?
A: No, it all fits under the hood.
Q4: Will you be able to upgrade from N1 to IC3 by adding parts and swapping blowers e.g. start with N1, add an IC later, finally bolt in the twinscrew huffer?
A: You could do that. The off-the-shelf parts would remain the same. The blower and most of the parts from me would have to be swapped out. I could see doing a trade-in program for that. The old parts would get you partial credit for the new ones.
Q4:1 With IC1, would the cross brace be able to remain where it is?
A: In the pic above it is in it’s stock position. (crushes the rubber boot, but that will be lower. However for the finished product the cross brace will need to be about ½” higher. I think some simple spacers would work but haven’t tried yet.
Q4.2: How much HP will the Jag. blower support?
A: Generally speaking it will make over 500 crank HP but less than 600. If you plan to go much bigger than 500 then you will want to go with the Whipple 2.3 or something Like Tim’s Kit.
Q4.5: But you're selling the things, aintcha?
A: Ain’t sold sold nun yet. But I would like to.
Q5: I've read your manifesto a few times and it's still unclear to me what specifically will be in your kit?
A: Manifesto hahaha. From my small wooden shack in Montana I will probably be shipping everything that would be needed except what is in off-the-shelf parts list. Be careful opening the boxes, or have someone you don’t like open it.
Q5a: Also, are you eventually going to offer your trick manifold, other parts as separate items? I think many of the folks that would consider your system are tinkerers like yourself, and want the satisfaction of engineering their own system. The manifold doesn't need to be reinvented, so people could start with that...
A: I would probably sell any part anyone wanted. I first need to know if I can sell enough of each part to get some tooling made. That’s why I’m selling all my parts at once to start with. Even in it’s full form the kit would be for tinkerers. There will be an interview process before you can even send money.
Q 5.4?
Andy: Back when you were working on this project you mentioned that the blower was pretty loud. How loud are the systems you're proposing? Are these different designs or blowers now that are quieter?
A: Pete, the quote you listed was from another system I was working on back in the “supercharge the S4 for $1500” days. I was trying to use an M90 on a bracket as the BBK Mustang kits do. That one was extremely loud because the rotors were exposed. These systems would be pretty quiet as Chris points out. I only notice a slight whistle or whine.
Q6:I would have concerns with smog issues in CA.
I'd like to know if that is a problem with your car, when you go to get it smogged.
A: I will not be registering it with CARB or anyone else. Having the blower could be troublesome in some places. Other places don’t require any type of smog test whatsoever. Each person will have to decide how this will affect them.
Q7: When are you going to have a dyno sheet for us?
A: In corporate terms, after the third quarter. The dynos I have contacted are open only during the week. I can’t take another day off my real job before the end of the quarter.
Q8:How munch air and at what, max RPM can a whipple pump, the AMG helical super changer can pump 2646lbs of air per hr.At 20.700 rpms. They claim 30 percent higher than comparable systems.
A: I am in the process of getting all the exact info from Whipple but the AMG you speak of is a twinscrew. This quote is off the Whipple site. “You can’t get enough horsepower out of the roots type. A helical (screw-type) can get it.”
- Wolf Zimmerman, AMG’s Director of powertrain engineering, May 14, 2001
Gregg, I didn’t put in the questions about the FI on the OBs. I didn’t wan tto confuse things. Try searching for posts by a Quick Carl.
John, I hope to have what you need ready to go by the time you’ll want it.
Chris, Let’s get together tomorrow night. I’ll be working on getting the IC installed this weekend. Thanks for the testimony.
Here's a peek at part of the protptype IC
Andy K
Q1: Any plans involving the 16 valve cars?
A:If I sell a few of these for the 32 I will buy a 16 valver and design a kit for. I have been wanting to do one for a while.
Q2: Any pics of the complete install yet?
A: This is the prototype system I am running now. It will look much cleaner when completed. Hacker-Pschor, I took this shot just for you.
Q3: Does it require a hood scoop?
A: No, it all fits under the hood.
Q4: Will you be able to upgrade from N1 to IC3 by adding parts and swapping blowers e.g. start with N1, add an IC later, finally bolt in the twinscrew huffer?
A: You could do that. The off-the-shelf parts would remain the same. The blower and most of the parts from me would have to be swapped out. I could see doing a trade-in program for that. The old parts would get you partial credit for the new ones.
Q4:1 With IC1, would the cross brace be able to remain where it is?
A: In the pic above it is in it’s stock position. (crushes the rubber boot, but that will be lower. However for the finished product the cross brace will need to be about ½” higher. I think some simple spacers would work but haven’t tried yet.
Q4.2: How much HP will the Jag. blower support?
A: Generally speaking it will make over 500 crank HP but less than 600. If you plan to go much bigger than 500 then you will want to go with the Whipple 2.3 or something Like Tim’s Kit.
Q4.5: But you're selling the things, aintcha?
A: Ain’t sold sold nun yet. But I would like to.
Q5: I've read your manifesto a few times and it's still unclear to me what specifically will be in your kit?
A: Manifesto hahaha. From my small wooden shack in Montana I will probably be shipping everything that would be needed except what is in off-the-shelf parts list. Be careful opening the boxes, or have someone you don’t like open it.
Q5a: Also, are you eventually going to offer your trick manifold, other parts as separate items? I think many of the folks that would consider your system are tinkerers like yourself, and want the satisfaction of engineering their own system. The manifold doesn't need to be reinvented, so people could start with that...
A: I would probably sell any part anyone wanted. I first need to know if I can sell enough of each part to get some tooling made. That’s why I’m selling all my parts at once to start with. Even in it’s full form the kit would be for tinkerers. There will be an interview process before you can even send money.
Q 5.4?
Andy: Back when you were working on this project you mentioned that the blower was pretty loud. How loud are the systems you're proposing? Are these different designs or blowers now that are quieter?
A: Pete, the quote you listed was from another system I was working on back in the “supercharge the S4 for $1500” days. I was trying to use an M90 on a bracket as the BBK Mustang kits do. That one was extremely loud because the rotors were exposed. These systems would be pretty quiet as Chris points out. I only notice a slight whistle or whine.
Q6:I would have concerns with smog issues in CA.
I'd like to know if that is a problem with your car, when you go to get it smogged.
A: I will not be registering it with CARB or anyone else. Having the blower could be troublesome in some places. Other places don’t require any type of smog test whatsoever. Each person will have to decide how this will affect them.
Q7: When are you going to have a dyno sheet for us?
A: In corporate terms, after the third quarter. The dynos I have contacted are open only during the week. I can’t take another day off my real job before the end of the quarter.
Q8:How munch air and at what, max RPM can a whipple pump, the AMG helical super changer can pump 2646lbs of air per hr.At 20.700 rpms. They claim 30 percent higher than comparable systems.
A: I am in the process of getting all the exact info from Whipple but the AMG you speak of is a twinscrew. This quote is off the Whipple site. “You can’t get enough horsepower out of the roots type. A helical (screw-type) can get it.”
- Wolf Zimmerman, AMG’s Director of powertrain engineering, May 14, 2001
Gregg, I didn’t put in the questions about the FI on the OBs. I didn’t wan tto confuse things. Try searching for posts by a Quick Carl.
John, I hope to have what you need ready to go by the time you’ll want it.
Chris, Let’s get together tomorrow night. I’ll be working on getting the IC installed this weekend. Thanks for the testimony.
Here's a peek at part of the protptype IC
Andy K
Last edited by GoRideSno; 09-12-2003 at 12:44 AM.
09-12-2003, 12:51 AM
#25
Inventor
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Wow, nice pic!
You've come a long way since that strap-on 3800II...
Q9: What's the beer can thingy?
You've come a long way since that strap-on 3800II...
Q9: What's the beer can thingy?
09-12-2003, 01:22 AM
#27
Drifting
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Redondo Beach, CA>>>>Atlanta,GA
Posts: 2,015
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Brian check your PM.
PorKen,
Thanks man.
Q9: What's the beer can thingy?
A: It's a catch can for the oil breather. I am not running the crank case vapors back into the intake yet. The oil vapors can contribute to detonation.
Thanks Tony!
Andy K
PorKen,
Thanks man.
Q9: What's the beer can thingy?
A: It's a catch can for the oil breather. I am not running the crank case vapors back into the intake yet. The oil vapors can contribute to detonation.
Thanks Tony!
Andy K
09-12-2003, 01:39 AM
#28
Drifting
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Redondo Beach, CA>>>>Atlanta,GA
Posts: 2,015
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I forgot to mention that you may also find a used Jag blower for as litttle as $200. That's what I paid on e-bay for the one I am using . That brings the price as low as $3100 for 87 up and $2800 for 85-86.
Andy K
Andy K
09-12-2003, 01:48 AM
#29
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Originally posted by GoRideSno
Even in it’s full form the kit would be for tinkerers.
Even in it’s full form the kit would be for tinkerers.
09-12-2003, 01:54 AM
#30
Pro
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: New York
Posts: 665
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
with your kit is only for the 32v and if you are making one for the 16v do you have to upgrade your power steering pump,pump brackets,alternator and there brackets to the 32v set up as i had to do on my ex 84?
Lou
83 928 5 speed
Lou
83 928 5 speed