928UFO

Daniel5691,

I'm glad you brought this up, as I was going to do so myself--great topic!


jheis,

THIS overview, below, is just one example of the many reasons I come to Rennlist:

The above is much appreciated.


I wonder...does anyone know what the pro's are using in shops, these days? I mean, are they still using pneumatic ratchets frequently, or have they largely switched over to these cordless impact drivers--or is there no consensus yet? (I would think being freed of a potentially paint-scratching, dirt-encrusted, heavy, air hose would be a couple of big pluses for battery-powered wrenches).

Does anyone find an air ratchet to have superior access than the small, cordless impact wrenches?

Which one(s) have the most variability (and accuracy), in terms of pre-setting the torque values?

Thanks much, to all.

928UFO

hacker-pschorr

The shops I frequent rely heavily on air tools. These shops have blasting cabinets and pneumatic tire machines that require a hefty compressor or two. When you already have that kind of investment in equipment it's only natural to use it to the full extent.

Things like grinding are still better suited for air tools too.

I do see a couple of "low impact" cordless drivers in the shop, I don't see them used often when I'm there.

I've started to invest in air tools for my own shop and the more I use them, the "hassle" of the air hose becomes less annoying. I don't see how the small grinders will ever be replaced with electric tools.

z driver 88t

I've had an air-ratchet for years that pretty much just sits in the tool box. For me it was a bit bulky to work with and I didn't like having to keep an eye on the hose to keep it from rubbing the paint. It was a novelty to use when I first got it but generally don't use it. Most of my work is from the top side. If I did a lot of work under the car (sway bars, exhaust flanges, starter bolts, etc.) I could see the air ratchet being more useful.

The impact gun and impact nut driver I used a TON on my suspension work and water pump / timing belt job. It seems that consensus varies, but I have had better luck not snapping heads off old bolts by hitting them with an impact nut driver.

I used to use pneumatic, but really like the convenience of the cordless battery. For home use I LOVE the ones from Harbor Freight. While they may not hold up to professional use, for home use they have been great and I couldn't beat the price. The Chicago Electric impact nut driver and 1/2 impact wrench have been used regularly.

danglerb

Plenty of shops have almost retired the air tools with a few exceptions, that NO HOSE convenience goes a long way, and except for price the high torque cordless models overlap air driven.

Share the addiction, good tool talk as well as general garage issues at http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=4

danglerb

This is the smaller hex driver for screws etc, not the higher torque square drive. It will be fine for many tasks, but inch lbs of torque need to be divided by 12 to get ftlbs, and then the figures are optimistic. When you add in the use of an adapter from 1/4 hex to 3/8 or 1/2 square the torque seems much less to me too.

Ducman82

i use a 1/4 drive Dewalt 20v. works great and is perfect for the m13 headed bolts.

Kiln_Red

I prefer a 12V 3/8 cordless. I work in automotive and use 12V, 14.4V, and 18V cordless impacts. If 12V is good enough for a pro then I figure it's good enough for a hobbyist too. Even if you're very disciplined with the 18V impacts, it is still very easy to break bolt heads off on your smaller hardware when replacing fasteners. The 18V tools typically make a lot of torque. With the 12V, I can safely tighten just about any fastener up to a 15mm.

Sean uses these tools a lot more often than most of us, so he knows his tools well and how to use them appropriately. Just be careful with the 18V at first if that's the route you go. Otherwise, I really like my 12V and advocate that tool for anyone.

dr bob

Sean does a LOT more work on the 928's these days, so I'll defer to his opinion on this. The number of 928 water pump bolts I've dealt with pales in comparison to his I'm sure. So far (knocks on aluminum fender...) I've managed to avoid breaking any.

A year ago, when I did the TB/WP/etc changeot on my car, the water pump bolts came out smooth as buttah, thanks to anti-seize and a torque wrench when they were last replaced (by me). I could have pulled them with a hand driver (like a 1/4" square-drive 'screwdriver') with a 10mm socket on the end. Foe folks who've acquired cars that don't have the benefit of that kind of love and care in the past, the impact will certainly give some relief from binding at the top of the bolt. It --may-- help break free some frozen threads at the other end before the bolt shaft shears. There are plenty of discussions on the perils of water pump bolt changes, including soaking with PB Blaster or other penetrant, a few taps with a small hammer to try and shock/ring any corrosion loose before turning the heads, stuff like that.



Perhaps the most imporatnt reason to buy one of these battery impact drivers is all the other stuff it gets used for. Auto work is less than 10% of the duty mine sees. It does a stellar job driving deck screws and other wood screws, also lag bolts and drywall screws. Mine has a variable-speed feature that lets you regulate the impacts to "just enough", something most pneumatic impacts aren't as good at. On the car, it regularly sees 'nut-runner' duty when diassembling and assembling stuff, whren I might otherwise reach for a different tool if it weren't for the cordless convenience.


And for axle nuts, no impacts used. They beat the hell out of CV joint ***** and races, spider gears and maybe R&P's too. Instead, a 3/4-drive socket with a 5' long crossbar is the weapon of choice for that and for the crank snout bolt.

jheis

This is common sense. Same as using the appropriate 1/2", 3/8", or 1/4" drive ratchet depending on the size of the fasteners. You wouldn't use a 1/2" drive on an 8mm fastener.

I use a 18v Ryobi impact with a 1/2" anvil for the big stuff, a Ryobi hex drive with a 3/8" adapter for the medium sizes and a 12v Nextec 1/4" right angle impact for the little stuff.

Axle nuts are torqued to 340 ft/lb. Gonna take a lot of oomph to break one of them loose, probably something bigger than a 1/2 drive.... I sheared the anvil off of a 1/2" breaker bar trying to break one loose.

James

SeanR

I suppose it should be said, only use these for removal of water pump bolts, never to put them back in

hacker-pschorr

I'm picturing a few people I know totally mis-reading your advice and grabbing my 1/2" cordless impact to install a water-pump.

Kiln_Red

Don't worry. I wouldn't hammer in WP bolts with an impact, either.

I want the most tool for my money and I mean that in terms of applications that I can use it for. I use my 12V impact a lot more often because I can safely replace hardware with it in other areas of the car.

I agree that it should be said that the WP is among those areas where an impact shouldn't be used to replace hardware. People are easily confused as I see evidenced in online forums all of the time.

SeanR

I know right? (hate that phrase but it's so fitting)

Hell, I the only time I use the 18v to put anything back together its lug nuts to get them snug and out comes the torque wrench. I don't use it to put much together at all, prefer to use my fingers so I know I'm not screwing anything up.

jheis

Like Sean says, an impact is, primarily, useful on disassembly. On assembly, I use my fingers to start stuff to make sure it's not cross-threading.

Then, like Dr.Bob says, I use the impact as a "nut runner" to snug things up.

Final tightening on anything critical (including lug nuts) is ALWAYS done with a torque wrench.

James

928UFO

Kiln_Red,

Thank you for your thoughtful analysis--it makes sense to me, and I'd like to go the 12V and 3/8" drive route. Can you (and/or anyone else?) recommend any particular brands/models? (I'm more concerned with getting a smaller size/lower weight than I am with price and duty-cycle).

Thanks much,

928UFO