Adk46

I went to Hagerty.com, curious about what they thought my car was worth. But which condition? Their descriptions appear to be written by a concours judge, an owner of garage queens. Taken literally, my car is barely a 4. I think most of us have different objectives for our cars, and pay more attention to their mechanical, electrical and maintenance status. I believe their price estimates do reflect reality, but with different condition definitions.

How would you define #3 in our terms? The others?

Hagerty's definitions:

Condition #1 vehicles are the best in the world. The visual image is of the best car, in the right colors, driving onto the lawn at the finest concours. Perfectly clean, the car has been groomed down to the tire treads. Painted and chromed surfaces are mirror-like. Dust and dirt are banned, and materials used are correct and superbly fitted. The one word description for #1 cars is "concours."

Condition #2 cars could win a local or regional show. They can be former #1 cars that have been driven or have aged. Seasoned observers will have to look closely for flaws, but will be able to find some not seen by the general public. The paint, chrome, glass and interior will all appear as excellent. No excessive smoke will be seen on startup, no unusual noises will emanate from the engine compartment. The vehicle will drive as a new car of its era would. The one word description for #2 cars is "excellent."

Condition #3 cars could possess some, but not all of the issues of a #4 car, but they will be balanced by other factors such as a fresh paint job or a new, correct interior. #3 cars drive and run well, but might have some incorrect parts. These cars are not used for daily transportation but are ready for a long tour without excuses, and the casual passerby will not find any visual flaws. "Good" is the one word description of a #3 car.

Condition #4 cars are daily drivers, with flaws visible to the naked eye. The chrome might have pitting or scratches, the windshield might be chipped. Paintwork is imperfect, and perhaps the fender has a minor dent. The interior could have split seams or a cracked dash. No major parts are missing, but the wheels could differ from the originals, or the interior might not be stock. A #4 car can also be a deteriorated restoration. "Fair" is the one word that describes a #4 car.

upstate bob

They'd have a hard time rating a good rat rod.

James Bailey

I have NEVER seen a "good" rat rod

The Fixer

FYI:
Hagerty will not pay if your car has been modified.

Even a nice GTS like Tony77s would be an issue for them if they were to find out the sunroof was closed up.

American Collector INS (NJ) doesn't care about minor mods.

Darien

I've had them for years, never a problem insuring at top dollar...awesome service

StratfordShark

It's odd that they refer indirectly to mechanical condition for "2" cars ("drive as a modern car of its era would"), but make no mention of actual mechanical/electrical condition for concours cars which are all about surgical cleanliness.

928UFO

Adk46,

Thank you for this post.

I too have pondered over Hagerty's condition descriptions, and I agree--much of what many enthusiasts consider a "good driver" would seem to be a Hagerty #4, IMO.

I also find them oddly unhelpful, for a few reasons:

1. They don't seem to be comparing "apples to apples," between one level and the next.

2. They use obscure, somewhat arbitrary metrics, in terms of phrasing, that leave me scratching my head. For example:

Please see the bolded language, above.

Maybe it's just me, but when dealing with 30+ year old cars, of the 928's electro-vacuum-mechanical complexity level, if they are NOT driven "daily" (or at least more regularly than seems to be implied) I would be somewhat hesitant to call such a car "...ready for a long tour without excuses...."

I guess I just find Hargerty's condition descriptions fairly impenetrable, at best (based upon how many times I've re-read them--LOL).

But then, I don't own Bugattis and other six (or 7!) figure cars--perhaps I'd feel differently, if I did.

Maybe I'm just too "low brow," as I can't imagine "grooming" the tire treads--but I do realize the need to have a "concours standard" of judging, for concours-level cars. Having said that, however, I do believe Hagerty's descriptions could be broadened/relaxed, to make them more relevant to the bulk of the collector community than they currently seem to be.

I do hope this thread stays alive, as I'm interested in others' perspectives on Hagerty's condition descriptions.

928UFO

martinss

As we know, Hagerty's descriptions are designed to be applicable to a wide range of collector cars. On the other hand, the values they describe are based on recent sales data, so you can try to reverse engineer the sales examples to the conditions.

Hagerty says a 1993 GTS in condition#1 is worth $83k, and a condition #2 $64k. Currently Willhoit has a '93 for sale at $90k (http://www.willhoitenterprises.com/car632.html), so arguably that is an example of a #1.

At a guess, perhaps only 2% of available cars are a #1. Frankly I wouldn't want one, as I would feel that driving it would trigger devaluation and storage would take care and expense - as they point out a #2 might be a #1 that has been driven. I might aspire to a #2 and perhaps they represent the next 5-10% of cars.

Interestingly, Hagerty has also been discussing the value of original, unrestored cars and claiming that these can have greater value than cars that have been given full restorations.

OTR18WHEELER

My car made the list! Woo Hoo #4

Andy Kay

Hagerty is Collector Car and Boat Insurance company

I 've been with Hagerty for many years. I have never filed a claim but I have never had an issue at renewal time. Talk to the home office if you don't understand the rating system but I think it's pretty clear ... You own a 2 or 3 and here's why. I never thought they wanted to insure Cat 4 (Daily Drivers) and you probably don't own a Cat 1 (Some Of The Best In The World). So that leaves you in Cat 2 or 3.

They do want your car in a garage when not in use. They do have a mileage requirement but it's not like a mileage restriction on a new lease. Say you're in a club like PCA and you want to drive your 928 across the country to go to Parade 2016 or Renn Sport - No problem!

My 1979 911 SC has won many PCA Concours in Houston yet I've lived in Dallas for the last 7 years and drive to the Houston shows. Hagerty said, "No problem because it's a club event".

Bottom line: its collector car insurance not Allstate. However, many Allstate insurance agents offer Hagerty too!

hacker-pschorr

I think people need to realize there is a level 5-8 on this scale, Hagerity doesn't get involved with them so they are not listed on the site.

Knowing this, owning a "4" shouldn't be insulting. You need to remember that in their eyes a #1 could take first place at Pebble Beach.

I park my cars for 5 months a year and every spring they are good to go, I don't see what the difference is.

How you store a car between drives and long term is just as important as how often it's driven and maintained.

Fronkenstein

A simple interpretation of Hagerty's definitions:

1) car was driven from showroom to owners personal museum never to be driven

2) car was driven from showroom to garage and gets out for the annual concours

3) car is driven once per month of perfect weather is available

4) the rest of us slobs who drive our cars and wrench on them



Fronkenstein

PS. GarageTalk is a total piece of crApp. It's not even smart enough to readjust itself when Android pops up an info bar like "unplug your charger".

James Bailey

Frankly how well they COLLECT PREMIUMS has NOTHING to do with how they SETTLE CLAIMS....... not that I have any experience with either

Andy Kay

^^^ if you have no experience with either, then how can you make such a statement?

Once a year, they send me a bill and I pay it. Since 2006, my premium only went up once and that's because I raised the value of the car. Hagerty people are car people, I like them so much I interviewed for a job with them.

hacker-pschorr

Have you ever filed a claim?

Polecat has:

https://rennlist.com/forums/off-topi...insurance.html