WallyP

We may be glad that we have older cars...

http://www.autoblog.com/2015/04/20/a...s-car-repairs/

Spun

Interesting, but I'm pretty sure the argument to do that will fail. It's like saying you cannot mod your home computer. Hacking and selling their code, no, modifying it yes.

dr bob

So auto software is by its very nature two to five years out of date when a car is first sold. I'll buy into the idea that embedded software can be protected by copyright. I kind of depend on that to protect the software I write. Still I allow the licensees to adjust code parameters to meet specific requirements they might have. That way I don't have noisy warranty claims piling up. The licensees are aware (by contract) that changes in program parameters that they make are solely their responsibility. Same might apply to the car companies. Make a change , and you are on your own. My software hashes the system clock when it's loaded, and again whenever it's modofied or reloaded. Makes it super easy to tell when someone has been tinkering under the hood. Can't imagine that car makers could not do the same.

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Watching some car show on TV this morning, there's a demonstration of a plug-in device that supports adding an additional 145 horsepower to a GM Diesel truck with a software modification. Alter shift parameters for the transmission too. Touted as a great help for folks who do a lot of towing. Of course, as alleged by the car manufacturers, anything that breaks as a result of the added drivetrain load seems to find its way back as a warranty claim, and for that they have a valid claim against an owner for misuse. When you use the plug-in programmer, you pull the fuse for the On-Star system. So it won't report the code changes back to the mothership? Can the mothership tell when the On-Star link is lost due to fuse-pull? Any reason why the "free" two years of On-Star coincide with the initial warranty on the car?

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Buy your insurance from [pick your company] and get a discount if you plug in their little monitoring box. It keeps track of how you drive, so it can be reported back to the company for annual rate determination. Virtually all cars now come with built-in "flight data recorders" that save the last xx minutes before and after an accident, looking atall the vehicle stability and impact sensors, plus instruments and operator-input parameters. They do it defensively, so what you claim when you sue them for their "bad car" they can demonstrate that it might also be the "bad driver".


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Meanwhile, car companies are cosidered "deep pockets" by juries, and it takes a big bite out of those companies to "send a message" that's way beyond compensation for actual damages. I don't blame companies from trying to protect their shareholders.

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928 Content: I'm pretty sure that none of the code in my LH or EZK controllers could find a home in any Porsche hat still under a factory warranty. The bits are so old they are wobbly and weak by today's standards.

SQLGuy

DMCA states that it's illegal to "tamper" with software or hardware that's designed to protect copyrights. Disabling Macrovision on a DVD player because it messes with the picture of old DVDs that you own legitimately counts as such "tampering."

If the auto industry really wants to block DIYers, though, all they need to do is push for more enforcement of DOT and EPA regulations. Pretty much any mod that affects the engine could be considered to be tampering with emissions systems, and that's already illegal.

hacker-pschorr

They could care less about DIYers, the numbers are too small.
I don't care what the article states, this has everything to do with blocking the independent repair shops, and that has been happened for over a decade already.

It's a double edged sword and the consumer losses on both sides. The good shops that try to keep up and make proper repairs will have their hands tied. Meanwhile the hack shops will try even harder to circumvent everything which is even more dangerous to the consumer.

A friend of mine recently had an X5 BMW go into "lock down" mode because a door switch failed and the computer thought the door was open while the car was in motion. Turns out it wasn't the switch, it was the brain the switch was talking to. The BMW dealer had the unit in stock, more than one, and it was the 6th (or 7th?) version of that computer.....made in Mexico.

That's just the tip of the iceberg of what I've seen with modern cars and it's only going to get worse, much much worse.

ODB-III with built in live communication to authorities to alert them your car is not EPA compliant.

chrisjbell

In CA pretty much any engine mod has to be cleared with an "executive order" from CARB or the vehicle won't pass smog and can't be registered. They do a visual and with newer cars plug in the ODBII connector and query the ECU.

Got a couple of friends working on the next version of the CA smog check software. It will query the VIN and then compare that with the factory options list on file. Discrepancies will generally fail the vehicle.

This is relevant to the discussion because any attempt to decompile or reverse engineer the code that runs the vehicle is illegal. The DMCA makes nearly any changes to any commercial software illegal... it probably doesn't apply to the code in the 928s since they predate the law (?).

BTW, you can't (legally) mod your home computer if it means changing OS or BIOS software that isn't open sourced. A number of "utility" programs fall within a grey area.

kevinr

I suspect that is correct.

However, in 2010 the Feds (the US Copyright Office) declared, in their annual review of the implementation of DMCA, that jail-breaking iPhones was not a contemplated manifestation of the intent of DMCA, and was therefore legal.

While my agreement with Hacker's POV about the major automobile manufacturers wish to corner a larger part of the maintenance market may be economic incentive to pursue this approach, there is certainly ample precedent to suggest that it will be ultimately futile with regard to individuals.

On a related note: purchasing a Tesla requires one to agree with a terms-of-service licensing agreement that includes language very much to the effect that you will not attempt to reverse engineer, modify, etc. It doesn't seem to have had much effect (yet).

928 content: I love it in no small part because it has just the right amount of software in it (i.e, very little). Enough to have modern features like memory seats, a reasonably decent EFI system, etc — but not so much that it detract from the pure joy of driving it.

bureau13

DMCA bull**** and it's ilk...I think their days are numbered. God, I hope so. The groundswell of revolt is getting bigger. Then again, with most of Congress in the pocket of those who demand these types of laws, who knows?

polecat702

It's coming, and soon. There are more of us than there are of them ( government. )

drwhosc

Sue Me....

The Forgotten On

They can try to get me when I drop in an S2 bottom end into my 81 one day. They'll have trouble catching up though.

All these laws are BS put in place by corporation lobbyists wanting to protect their parent company's bottom line. That's it, and it really bugs me that this DMCA sh*t is really getting out of hand.

I do see some form of revolt coming as it seems the rest of the world has had theirs, now it's our turn

Speedtoys

Yet nobody votes on issues that -actually affect them-.

We're a nation of ****ty voters.

Bigfoot928

I say we vote out any idiot that voted at the next election for this legislation in any for.... m kay?

Tom in Austin

Interesting discussion ... in our age of 'big data' the purchase of car will gradually morph into a 'license' to use in which the manufacturer will assert ownership of the all the data created by your use of the car and will capture, store and sell information about the music you listen to, where you drive, etc. etc. When you link your phone via bluetooth the car will be able to capture information from it as well.

We can expect this to start with leases since you don't 'own' a leased vehicle, but it's a short hop from there to be have a license agreement buried in the purchase paperwork when you buy a new car. Once all manufacturers adopt this practice you'll no longer have a choice whether to accept this and auto sales will be forever changed.

bureau13

Note that Tesla...a car which relies on more computer software than most...did NOT participate in this lobby. I like this company more and more.

(And you're absolutely right, we ARE a nation of ****ty voters...I'm certainly down for voting the bums out)