Keyless Entry Version 2.0 (preview)
#16
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From: Phoenix AZ
As to how easy to repurpose those remotes - not sure of compatibility of learning these keys with an aftermarket system - but at least the VW TDi remote has lock/unlock & hatch (unlock) so it has the functions needed. Could always rip out the whole KE/Alarm system from a VW I suppose...
Below photos. My new keyhead remote key has ~1mm shorter blade length than the stock key, this doesn't leave much margin - it goes in deep to the ignition switch. The VW Key is ~8mm shorter than the long Porsche key.
The full Porsche long key blade wouldn't fit in the closed flip position (short key probably would) - it is of course ~8mm too long
If you shortened the key to fit the flipper it would be ~9mm shorter than the stock key - too short to work in the ignition by ~5mm at least I think.
Are there longer flipper remotes?
Alan
#18
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From: Phoenix AZ
It should work on all electric central lock cars ('80-'89) - though you may possibly need to use the pneumatic lock mode to allow for longer lock/unlock pulses.
The only things that won't work are the auto window roll-up on lock (<90) and if you don't have a hatch motor you can't use the hatch release - otherwise you can - any year.
Still a pretty good deal.
Alan
The only things that won't work are the auto window roll-up on lock (<90) and if you don't have a hatch motor you can't use the hatch release - otherwise you can - any year.
Still a pretty good deal.
Alan
Last edited by Alan; 05-03-2015 at 12:53 AM. Reason: changed '89 ref for the corrected '90
#19
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From: Phoenix AZ
Hi Alan,
Your project sounds great. We need to know the frequency of the remote for the key to know if it might be able to learn existing system interaction. You also did not give any source for your Chinese key alarm. People are waiting for more information. If you told me that the key was a learning 380 mhz remote, I would have liked to klick on a provided link and maybe ordered one to play around with. You didn't give us any of that.
Thanks,
Dave
Your project sounds great. We need to know the frequency of the remote for the key to know if it might be able to learn existing system interaction. You also did not give any source for your Chinese key alarm. People are waiting for more information. If you told me that the key was a learning 380 mhz remote, I would have liked to klick on a provided link and maybe ordered one to play around with. You didn't give us any of that.
Thanks,
Dave
Alan
#21
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I believe if you use the Euro relay Vs. US model instead (for the same year) - you will have windows active (temporarily) whenever the door pin switches show the doors are open - you can then easily fake this with the KE module and a diode, and then a few more diodes to feed the window & sunroof switches.
BTW there is a different KE controller by the same company with a few more features - one of which is window opening on unlock (a secondary mode if you click & hold unlock). On this model the close also requires you to hold the lock to close the windows/sunroof. I'm OK with that - it's how my current system works
I like the idea of this so much I ordered one of those too, along with some flipper keys for evaluation testing...(possibly welding). This express open should be able to work on all 90+ cars - but only if the car is configured in ROW windows mode (likely on Hans' & Paul's express windows too), it does require a bit more work for all these but it's not particularly onerous.
Alan
Last edited by Alan; 05-03-2015 at 12:53 AM. Reason: changed '89 ref for the corrected '90
#23
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The one I already posted does windows express closing but only on an '90 or later (or perhaps with some aftermarket window modules added to an earlier car).
http://www.ebay.com/itm/281386288489?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT This one has the flipper remotes and the dual window outputs (close & open). I believe it will work with both types of remotes - but not certain - time will tell - I'll update later. This has the same restrictions on what 928 models it will work on.
It also has a remote indicator LED (not clear you need it) and an external remote learning button - the base model has this internal, you have to open the case up to add additional remotes.
I intend to experiment in making a flipper remote for a 928 key. The long keys may be challenging. I did contact Keys for Classics to see if they had a flip style blank and they say no. It may be possible to mate a steel key to a flipper blank - we shall see. I'll consider that after I test the remotes.
Right now I don't see any offerings with the key head remotes and this type of receiver - however Jack - the guy who runs this store seems very accommodating - he might make up a package for you if you ask. He's been great on the questions I asked him & very fast responding and quick at shipping.
BTW with the keyhead remotes - they don't come with batteries - they take lithium button cells.
Hand annotated instructions suggest buying CR2016's for these - that would work - but the remotes are really designed for the thicker CR2032's that have about 3 times the capacity - I'd use those (and am) - they aren't that much more $. The same may be true of the flipper - though it has room for a rather bigger battery still...? (my Prius remotes of a similar size do still use button cells).
Alan
http://www.ebay.com/itm/281386288489?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT This one has the flipper remotes and the dual window outputs (close & open). I believe it will work with both types of remotes - but not certain - time will tell - I'll update later. This has the same restrictions on what 928 models it will work on.
It also has a remote indicator LED (not clear you need it) and an external remote learning button - the base model has this internal, you have to open the case up to add additional remotes.
I intend to experiment in making a flipper remote for a 928 key. The long keys may be challenging. I did contact Keys for Classics to see if they had a flip style blank and they say no. It may be possible to mate a steel key to a flipper blank - we shall see. I'll consider that after I test the remotes.
Right now I don't see any offerings with the key head remotes and this type of receiver - however Jack - the guy who runs this store seems very accommodating - he might make up a package for you if you ask. He's been great on the questions I asked him & very fast responding and quick at shipping.
BTW with the keyhead remotes - they don't come with batteries - they take lithium button cells.
Hand annotated instructions suggest buying CR2016's for these - that would work - but the remotes are really designed for the thicker CR2032's that have about 3 times the capacity - I'd use those (and am) - they aren't that much more $. The same may be true of the flipper - though it has room for a rather bigger battery still...? (my Prius remotes of a similar size do still use button cells).
Alan
Last edited by Alan; 05-03-2015 at 12:53 AM. Reason: changed '89 ref for the corrected '90
#24
Happy if your statement about 89 is correct - I need to replace the ancient keyless alarm on my '89 as its immobilised the car while driving a couple of times. Consequently the 89 hasn't had much exercise lately.. especially since it stranded my wife on her drive home from work. I haven't been through the 89 wiring diagrams - the only alarm work I've had to do was on my 87's.
#25
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Ahh - Hilton - you are right - its '90+ not '89+ that the change happened.
So revise everything I said before. (BTW I just did for future clarity) In '90 the new relay window controller was fitted - this lasted through '95 unchanged. Earlier cars have some limitations on window functions...
Alan
So revise everything I said before. (BTW I just did for future clarity) In '90 the new relay window controller was fitted - this lasted through '95 unchanged. Earlier cars have some limitations on window functions...
Alan
#26
Alan, outstanding effort ... I for one have always preferred a key-remote to a fob as it's more of an OEM look. Are you going to post any further tips or pics on the key blade modification ?
#27
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From: Phoenix AZ
Alan
#28
With a TON of help from Alan I added the "commando" locking system to my GTS about 11 years ago. It has never missed a beat in all that time. One key fob became worn and I swapped it to the second one and life continues. I needed a lot of help as I am electrons challenged.
The point is - if you want a system that is foolproof and works Listen to the MAN (Alan).
Thanks for all you do!!!!
The point is - if you want a system that is foolproof and works Listen to the MAN (Alan).
Thanks for all you do!!!!
__________________
Does it have the "Do It Yourself" manual transmission, or the superior "Fully Equipped by Porsche" Automatic Transmission? George Layton March 2014
928 Owners are ".....a secret sect of quietly assured Porsche pragmatists who in near anonymity appreciate the prodigious, easy going prowess of the 928."
Does it have the "Do It Yourself" manual transmission, or the superior "Fully Equipped by Porsche" Automatic Transmission? George Layton March 2014
928 Owners are ".....a secret sect of quietly assured Porsche pragmatists who in near anonymity appreciate the prodigious, easy going prowess of the 928."
#29
Are you just doing yours and sharing the design, or do you plan to offer the kit?
#30
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I will show you how - but no kits - fortunately for this module there is a much reduced need for external components.
For a '91 & GTS:
You essentially need nothing external unless you want the horn to sound. (Can have lock-&-arm/unlock-&-disarm/hatch-&-suspend/interior lights/turn signal confirm/auto windows close - Can add 1 relay for horn confirm, a few diodes for auto windows open+)
+ I haven't tested this mode yet - but I strongly believe it will work just fine.
For any earlier electric lock vehicles (~1980-1990) 2 options:
A. If you ignore the short key function wrt the locks (e.g. Lock == Arm & Unlock == Disarm) OR if you have already removed/disabled the alarm
Then you need nothing extra for the install (Can have lock-&-arm/unlock-&-disarm/hatch-&-disarm*/turn signal confirm - Can add 1 relay for horn confirm, **).
* If electric hatch equipped (and if it works!). On '90 you can also do window close
** For '90 you can also add diodes for window open, and get interior lights too.
B: If you want to maintain the functional difference between the Short & Long keys so that locking/unlocking with the short key doesn't modulate the alarm state then you need 4-6 more diodes for any install. Otherwise the install & features are the same as for A
The only practical value of this mode IMO is if the alarm becomes unreliable and you'd like to be able to lock the car without the alarm being set. You could achieve that with an override switch - which to me would actually be a better solution. There may be a slight security factor - the long key may have more tumblers - anyone know? - does it just engage the alarm switch or actually add tumblers.
NB: I haven't actually tested via anyone else's install that the difference between A: & B: is correct as stated here - but I'm pretty confident that it is true (if not worst case the difference is a ~6 extra diodes). B: here is completely irrelevant if your alarm isn't functional.
Alan
For a '91 & GTS:
You essentially need nothing external unless you want the horn to sound. (Can have lock-&-arm/unlock-&-disarm/hatch-&-suspend/interior lights/turn signal confirm/auto windows close - Can add 1 relay for horn confirm, a few diodes for auto windows open+)
+ I haven't tested this mode yet - but I strongly believe it will work just fine.
For any earlier electric lock vehicles (~1980-1990) 2 options:
A. If you ignore the short key function wrt the locks (e.g. Lock == Arm & Unlock == Disarm) OR if you have already removed/disabled the alarm
Then you need nothing extra for the install (Can have lock-&-arm/unlock-&-disarm/hatch-&-disarm*/turn signal confirm - Can add 1 relay for horn confirm, **).
* If electric hatch equipped (and if it works!). On '90 you can also do window close
** For '90 you can also add diodes for window open, and get interior lights too.
B: If you want to maintain the functional difference between the Short & Long keys so that locking/unlocking with the short key doesn't modulate the alarm state then you need 4-6 more diodes for any install. Otherwise the install & features are the same as for A
The only practical value of this mode IMO is if the alarm becomes unreliable and you'd like to be able to lock the car without the alarm being set. You could achieve that with an override switch - which to me would actually be a better solution. There may be a slight security factor - the long key may have more tumblers - anyone know? - does it just engage the alarm switch or actually add tumblers.
NB: I haven't actually tested via anyone else's install that the difference between A: & B: is correct as stated here - but I'm pretty confident that it is true (if not worst case the difference is a ~6 extra diodes). B: here is completely irrelevant if your alarm isn't functional.
Alan