On the Road Again...

Thank you to everyone who helped arm me with information. The first thing I did was clean the connections on the Green Wire and she started right up.

Good Stuff.

James

Original Text:
-- I have been reluctant to start a new topic since there are a couple other "Does Not Start" threads here already. However, since the cars listed are newer than mine, I just want to get a bit of advice. I have read through the other posts and I am pretty sure where I should start.

My '79 928 Auto has been running great since I bought it in March. With only 47,000 miles, I only have one issue. It has a slow and inconsistent oil leak near the pan gasket.

The other day I checked the oil, it was low. I dumped a quart of Quaker State 5W-30W. Ran as great as ever. After work, 8 hours later, it wouldn't turn over. It would grind, but not catch. I tried it twice, then popped the hood. I jiggled the connections on the distributer cap as well as any other wires under the hood.

Hooped back in, Vroom, fired right up. Drove home (about 20 minutes, never getting above 45). Backed into the garage. Turned it off. I started it twice more, just to make sure, no problems. I didn't drive it the next day.

So, 2 days after the 1st temporary non-start, I went out and turned the key. It would not turn over. I tried my wire jiggle technique, nope, not this time. I have not been back to mess around since Friday.

Okay, my first step was to take the relay and fuse diagram found on Wally and Jeanie's 928gt site. I was thinking to check the connections, clean, and maybe attempt to switch my warm blowing A/C compressor relay with the fuel pump relay. But the numbers don't match

XVII Fuel Pump 928.615.113.01
XI A/C Compressor 928.618.111.00

In fact none of the other relays match the Fuel Pump Relay.

It looks like I could switch the Fog Lights Relay with the Auto Start-Relay. However, I have not come across that option in any threads. To be honest, I am not real confident in switching anything.

I just do not want to have to tow it to a shop. Especially, since it fired up last Thursday.

I just read another thread about vacuum leaks and grounding wires. Seems like 2 other places to check out. I have yet, to discover where all the vaccum lines or ground wires are located.

After the fuse box clean-up, I was going to clean up around the battery. It is already in great shape with a year-old battery. Still, it cannot hurt to check the connections and the grounds located back there.

Any guidance will be greatly appreciated. I have found bits and pieces of advice from here and there, and know just enough to really screw something up.

Thank you in advance,

 

James,
Check those injector bleed down threads from a year or so ago in the archives.
If that doesn't work the early model fuel system GURU is: Dennis Wilson.
If he doesn't glome this thread, PM him.
One of the few people out there who can humiliate you with their total grasp of a subject and you enjoy the experience.
He'll have you singing my favorite 25th Inf. Div. (Leg) cadance,
- now a San Francisco rave -.
"Whip me beat me, I need love.
Spank me with your leather glove."
Serious about Dennis, he's horribly competent on start/fuel/fuel distributor/
idle valve/start valve,.......... stuff!

 

James,

Jiggling wires and no crank situations leads me to believe you may have a corrosion problem with connectors and grounds. Start by checking your fuses. If the have the silver/tin metal strips, try cleaning or replacing them. The best low corrosion fuses are the copper/brass type available from the big three. Next check your grounds especially the negative battery ground and engine to block ground. If your battery ground still has the wingnut (yes there is a couple wingnuts on our 928's) make sure it's the heavy brass type. If not, replace it with a nut and washer after cleaning the contact. The engine to block ground is at the right rear of the engine below the exhaust. If you can remember which wires you jiggled, try cleaning them with a spray electrical cleaner and scotchbrite pad. There is also the notorious green wire that goes from the distributor, across the front of the engine and connects to the ignition module via a plug near the right side cam gear cover. Cleaning that contact may remedy your intermittant crank but no start problem.

Concerning your relays. The 78 and 79 928's had a lot of different electrical components than the later models. I would pull and clean the contacts on the fuel pump and AT starter relays. The fuel pump relay is located on the bottom row, second from the right (next to the large relay). BTW it should have a parts # 928 615 113 01. The AT starter relay is located on the top row, seventh from the left.

BTW don't believe all that stuff that John says about me. Think it has something to do with Texas Oklahoma football.

Good luck and let me know how it goes.

Dennis

 

Thanks Dennis, John and Wally. I plan to work a half day today and see what I can accomplish.

I will let you know.

 

Dennis is right. The very first thing you need to do when you have a intermittent starting problem is clean all the fuses, maybe even replace them all. Pull all the relays and push them back in. Check the grounds down at the fuse panel.

928's have several types of no start issues. I cant tell which you have with the information provided, but I will list them with things to check with each.

First, no start when key is turned. That means you get nothing at all when ignition key is turned. No starter or even no fuel pump sound nothing. Maybe even your dash lights not coming on. but then you come back later and the sucker starts right up. That type of problem is most commonly found with a worn out ignition switch. Yep had to replace mine. Same symptoms as above. If this happens to you and if you have a 5speed you can push start the car. It will get you home or a safe place. It may or may not start right up. My car seemed to fire right back up with no problems. Anyway I replaced the ignition switch about two months ago and have never had another no-start problem.

Second, if the car doesnt start when key is turned but the starter is turning the motor over fast enough to start. First thing I check is to see if the fuel pump is running. So I check the fuse panel first. Remove the fuel pump fuse and replace it. Pull the relay and push it back in. Try to restart. If same thing happens. I will pull the relay and use my jumper wire to force the fuel pump to run. As soon as I use the jumper you can hear the pump start to run. try starting the car. If same thing happens (no start) at least you know the pump is running. Again, assuming the starter is turning the motor over fast enough to start it. Next thing to check for me would be the green wire. If it is shorting on itself or something else, the motor will turn over but not start, or it will backfire or do some crazy stuff like that. Check the green wire to make sure its not hard and brittle and the connections are still good. If that turns up good, then you must check for spark. Easiest way is to hook up a timing light on a plug wire and try to start the car. If you have spark the light will flash. Do this to every plug wire. If you have spark at all wires and you have fuel delivery (jumper wire or if you can hear the pump running) then the car should start. Unless the timing is way off due to a slipped belt. but if that was the case you wouldnt have a intermittent starting problem. That problem would never let you start the car.

Okay so if you dont have spark then you must pull the manual and go through its testing procedure for the electrical system. Its very easy to follow for our 79's. follow each step and you will find the problem. I found that I had a coil that wasnt putting out the correct voltage. I replaced it and have had no problems. I had to also replace my green wire, due to it shorting onto itself and causing a no start, and even stalling the car while driving. Did the shake the wire thing and sure enough it would start back up and run fine. replaced the green wire and had even more problems due to Porsche making a batch of bad green wires. Make sure your new green wire is tested before anyone ships it to you. that is a must.

okay thats if for now.

As far as your oil leaks, good luck. I have been fighting oil leaks since I purchased the car. Just make sure when you do the timing belt to replace every seal you can get at when you do it. Do the ones behind the distributor housing also. Thats where mine was leaking bad.

You can read some of the other posts that are going right now about another 79 with starting problems. I wrote some stuff there also.

Good luck.

 

One more thing, since you have an auto I have heard of a switch that wont allow the car to be started if its in gear. It could be possible that, that switch is not working correctly. but I would check the other stuff first.

 

Oh Christ!
Who gave The Okie's a football?

 

<Who gave The Okie's a football?>

John, who gave it to them isn't important. What is important is that the shorthorns can't take it away.

Dennis

 

Had a late meeting today, then soccer coaching, then a PTA meeting.

Didn't get to mess around under the hood.

Thanks for all the advice. I am confident that it will not take too long to find the problem.

The only football team I get to cheer for is the University of Hawaii Warriors. We occasionally get beat by real college football teams. Next week they are playing USC. At least Dennis and John have had a long history of solid teams to root for.

James

 

OahuJames:

It appears that you live in Hawaii Kai (?) and that photo was taken on the way to Makapuu.

I once lived in Hawaii Kai and drove that road all the time for fun in a hot rod '57 Speedster and then in a 911E coupe (slightly modified). That is, until I tired of "never going over 45" or of the constant attention from OPD.
I got tickets when I wasn't speeding and even when the cop didn't bother to clock me: he claimed all Porsches speed, so I must be a speeder. I was the PCA president of the Hawaii region for awhile. I knew the cops by their first name and family history. In fact, don't mention my name or the cops may chase you around too, and maybe even some other people may chase you too. Late at night on H-1 was my source of "exercise", but I would run out of road within 5 minutes. Sometimes at night, I would take the 911 the long way home and drive around the island to counteract Rock Fever.Then I realized I must be masochistic, and to correct that situation, I got rid of my Porsches and tools and moved to San Francisco and took the bus.
I just don't know how anyone can bear the frustration of having a true GT car in Honolulu. How can you stand it? I know..........the beach compensates.

 

Ron, I actually live in town. No tickets, yet either. However, I have only been a Porsche owner for less than six months. That is a great road on the east side.

Wow, a '57 Speedster and a killer 911. Very Nice choices. Are both cars still on the island?

I went on a PCA Hawaii cruise. Nice folks. All 911s. I had the only 928. Most of the guys prefer to pay to get work done on their cars. I was looking for another 928 owner to buddy up with and tinker on each others cars. My 911 owner friend, Brian Lum, moved to AZ, so I lost a valuable friend. I have seen a hand full of other 928s parked in front of mechanic shops or with mechanic shop licence plate holders.

Do you still have any contacts out here that have kept their tools?

I work fairly close to home and occasionally take the bus to avoid any parking lot dings to the doors. You remember how narrow the parking stalls are here. I am not taking full advantage of my car. It is just in such good condition ...

Thanks for the message. If you come out, I will let you scare me around the turns in my car.

 

James,

My alma mater is actually SIU but the Saluki football team is in the wrong division. Guess OU will have to do.

Dennis

 

Back in Action.

What a relief. Thanks again for the step by step guidelines into getting my car cranked up.

I really appreciate it. Just PM me and tell me where to send the Chocolate covered Macadamia Nuts ...

Mahalo,
James

 

John, I am glad to see the Longhorns squeeked by New Mexico 66 - 7. I am a Tampa Bay Bucs fan, so I am eager to see Chris Sims step up.

I hope you don't cheer for North Texas since Dennis' Sooners spanked them last week. They dropped Alabama over the weekend. I am sure Dennis enjoyed the game.

Take Care you two,

 

James,
Hideous game!
I used to live over the hill -Red Hill/Moanaloa Valley, O.K. CRATER- from the Aloha Bowl. As well as Wiapahu.
It's been a long time but the two-lane road out of Waipahu runs between Wheelers back gate and Schofields Foote Gate is a great little run at speed. And I seldom saw a cop. However if you break down your car will be stripped or trashed within two hours.
Your PCA should try to get permission to do a run down or up (much safer) Kole Kole Pass. Incredible run! I sold my early Suzuki 750 for a RD 400 Yamaha for the twisties. A lot of switchbacks as you drop close to a mile. MP's on Schofield side -upper-, and Jarheads -lower side - never messed with us as long as we cleared the last ammo bunker before lighting the fires. There's that blast down the Pali Pali and If I recall depending on the time of day a good rip past Hunama(sp)Bay towards Sea World and that beach where the hanggliders land.
It 's a beautiful Island but my long tour was enough.
Ron,
There were fat cat's buying their kids Ferrarri's and Lambo's when I was there. I agree, what a waste.
Dennis,
And I thought A&M had some knuckle dragger's...Sheech ... It's not fair if they grow up in a feedlot.