TIL The 928S4 is still the fastest production car built.
02-25-2015, 02:32 PM
#16
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The following year a V8 powered Chevy S10 beat the class record held by the 928S4. You may recall the S10 never came with a V8, that tells you how "stock" a car had to be in order to qualify for that class.
02-25-2015, 02:47 PM
#17
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Sounds like pretty effective due diligence. Still the effort was enough to gain some bragging rights over other market competitors. I'm guessing though that Chevrolet and the V8 S10 Owners Club in 1987 didn't treat their win as a milestone the way Porsche did. At least we got the poster and the feature film.
02-25-2015, 03:31 PM
#19
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02-25-2015, 04:42 PM
#20
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Aston Martin V8 Vantage 380hp, 320tq, 3500 pounds .34 cof 175 MPH. Pretty similar size car with lower cof and a bit more hp only 3mph faster, a far cry from 184.
02-25-2015, 05:28 PM
#21
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Difference in frontal area? Different-sized ponies? And MK will remind us that horsepower is horsepower; essentially it's torque already corrected for RPM. 300 HP at 2500 RPM does exactly the same amount of work as 300 HP at 5000 RPM. 300lbs/ft of torque at 5000 RPM does twice the work of 300 lbs/ft of torque at 2500 RPM. What gearing can buy you is the ability to achieve top speed at the horsepower peak RPM's. Many cars have top gears that won't let the engine reach peak horsepower RPM's, the technically-correct description of "overdrive". If biggest numbers on the salt flats or the autobahn is your goal, you'll need a total gear ratio that has you at peak horsepower right at top speed.
02-25-2015, 06:03 PM
#22
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Wasn't really trying to stir up the hornets nest here. What I was trying to do was start a discussion of what cars CAN hit the 500 PY production # AND has a higher top speed than the 928. I am sure there are a few.
I think that Porsche may have been making claims using FIA guidelines.
FIA
International Sporting Code 1969 – Appendix J
Category A: recognised production cars (minimum production in 12 consecutive months)
- Group 1: series production touring cars 5000
- Group 2: touring cars 1000
- Group 3: grand touring cars 500
- Group 4: sports cars 25
Michael
I think that Porsche may have been making claims using FIA guidelines.
FIA
International Sporting Code 1969 – Appendix J
Category A: recognised production cars (minimum production in 12 consecutive months)
- Group 1: series production touring cars 5000
- Group 2: touring cars 1000
- Group 3: grand touring cars 500
- Group 4: sports cars 25
Michael
02-25-2015, 06:18 PM
#23
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My 74 Pantera GTS, before I converted it to a GT5 S, had a top end speed rated by the factory at 174 MPH. And that was with the 351 Cleveland smog engine @ 350 Hp. It could reach that speed easy.
The power band in the Pantera is way different than the 928, and the engine would never wind up like the Porsche engine. It reached peak hp @ 4000 rpm. Pantera's are very lite weight too, mine only weighs 2900+ fuel, and me @194.
I think because of emission regulations the factories didn't publish true performance specs. In stock form I think the S 4, and Pantera were pretty evenly matched, and the Pantera was a true production car. 40 years later my Pantera has been so highly modified that the only things still stock are the tail lights.
The power band in the Pantera is way different than the 928, and the engine would never wind up like the Porsche engine. It reached peak hp @ 4000 rpm. Pantera's are very lite weight too, mine only weighs 2900+ fuel, and me @194.
I think because of emission regulations the factories didn't publish true performance specs. In stock form I think the S 4, and Pantera were pretty evenly matched, and the Pantera was a true production car. 40 years later my Pantera has been so highly modified that the only things still stock are the tail lights.
02-25-2015, 06:33 PM
#24
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My 74 Pantera GTS, before I converted it to a GT5 S, had a top end speed rated by the factory at 174 MPH. And that was with the 351 Cleveland smog engine @ 350 Hp. It could reach that speed easy.
The power band in the Pantera is way different than the 928, and the engine would never wind up like the Porsche engine. It reached peak hp @ 4000 rpm. Pantera's are very lite weight too, mine only weighs 2900+ fuel, and me @194.
I think because of emission regulations the factories didn't publish true performance specs. In stock form I think the S 4, and Pantera were pretty evenly matched, and the Pantera was a true production car. 40 years later my Pantera has been so highly modified that the only things still stock are the tail lights.
The power band in the Pantera is way different than the 928, and the engine would never wind up like the Porsche engine. It reached peak hp @ 4000 rpm. Pantera's are very lite weight too, mine only weighs 2900+ fuel, and me @194.
I think because of emission regulations the factories didn't publish true performance specs. In stock form I think the S 4, and Pantera were pretty evenly matched, and the Pantera was a true production car. 40 years later my Pantera has been so highly modified that the only things still stock are the tail lights.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_Tomaso_Pantera
"Production
1971–1992
7260 produced"
"Ford ended their importation to the US in 1975, having sold around 5,500 cars."
So for those first 5 years looks like they hit the production #'s but tailed off after that. We know that the GTS's were tailing off in the mid 1990's so fair is fair.
Michael
02-25-2015, 06:53 PM
#25
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Top Gear showed that the 2009 Corvette ZR1 could do it.
"2009 production 16,956 Model ZR1 model added, new "Spyder" wheels for Z06."
Bonneville - 176.549
Michael
"2009 production 16,956 Model ZR1 model added, new "Spyder" wheels for Z06."
Bonneville - 176.549
Michael
02-25-2015, 06:59 PM
#26
Wasn't really trying to stir up the hornets nest here. What I was trying to do was start a discussion of what cars CAN hit the 500 PY production # AND has a higher top speed than the 928. I am sure there are a few. I think that Porsche may have been making claims using FIA guidelines. FIA International Sporting Code 1969 – Appendix J Category A: recognised production cars (minimum production in 12 consecutive months) - Group 1: series production touring cars 5000 - Group 2: touring cars 1000 - Group 3: grand touring cars 500 - Group 4: sports cars 25 Michael
02-25-2015, 07:16 PM
#27
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Found more info here:
http://www.fia.com/sites/default/fil...tegory%20A.pdf
Now to sort it by speed location and year.
Anyone that owns a paid for Adobe version that can do this for the conversation?
Michael
http://www.fia.com/sites/default/fil...tegory%20A.pdf
Now to sort it by speed location and year.
Anyone that owns a paid for Adobe version that can do this for the conversation?
Michael
Last edited by michaelathome; 02-25-2015 at 07:54 PM.
02-25-2015, 07:19 PM
#28
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By limiting _absolutely capable cars_ that didn't go to Bonneville to do it..is not a proud argument to sit on...IMHO.
Because that commercial, shows a car after hours of prep..not so much right off the lot.
Because that commercial, shows a car after hours of prep..not so much right off the lot.
02-25-2015, 08:25 PM
#29
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