Unusually original car. Upgrade or not?
02-07-2015, 10:44 AM
#31
Electron Wrangler
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Yes - if you aren't ever going to sell do whatever you want. I don't think even a pristine low mile '81 is going to be a greeat investment any time soon.
I'd say think about each thing first - check out what others have done and make sure you will want to live with those changes long term.
Some things are no brainers - putting 8" H4 headlamps in a 928 is making it closer to Porsche's original vision of the car IMO. (Installing 7" sealed beams was a move out of the Prince of Darkness's playbook). New radio/head units, better speakers, new tires, better hoses, new wipers, various fluids - there is lots of much better basic technology you can use today that doesn't look like much of a departure but does indeed perform far better... where to draw the line is up to you.
My best advice - figure out where the line is for you before you start down the path.
For me - I decided that getting the car closer to the ROW model features is always acceptable, updating safety items as much as possible is fine too (better/wider tires, brake bias etc). Other modernization changes in keeping with the ergonomics of the original are OK too (e.g. new head unit/speakers that don't look out of place is OK). I also think adding some convenience features in a way that Porsche might have done if they had continued production after 1995 can also be OK (keyless entry, more power outlets,better sound deadening etc etc). I've also invested in fixing some of the known issues in my model (better oil cooling, better oil control, better oil).
My car doesn't really look modified - until you look really closely (or open the hood).
Alan
I'd say think about each thing first - check out what others have done and make sure you will want to live with those changes long term.
Some things are no brainers - putting 8" H4 headlamps in a 928 is making it closer to Porsche's original vision of the car IMO. (Installing 7" sealed beams was a move out of the Prince of Darkness's playbook). New radio/head units, better speakers, new tires, better hoses, new wipers, various fluids - there is lots of much better basic technology you can use today that doesn't look like much of a departure but does indeed perform far better... where to draw the line is up to you.
My best advice - figure out where the line is for you before you start down the path.
For me - I decided that getting the car closer to the ROW model features is always acceptable, updating safety items as much as possible is fine too (better/wider tires, brake bias etc). Other modernization changes in keeping with the ergonomics of the original are OK too (e.g. new head unit/speakers that don't look out of place is OK). I also think adding some convenience features in a way that Porsche might have done if they had continued production after 1995 can also be OK (keyless entry, more power outlets,better sound deadening etc etc). I've also invested in fixing some of the known issues in my model (better oil cooling, better oil control, better oil).
My car doesn't really look modified - until you look really closely (or open the hood).
Alan
02-07-2015, 12:22 PM
#32
Rennlist Member
Like you I plan on owning my 87 until doomsday arrives. With that in mind, my goal was to correct some of the correctable issues and have a very dependable driver. I went with Constantine's TT and clamp upgrade, HO alternator, Porken Tensioner, LED pod light & interior light upgrade, ECU upgrade( updated more robust) sound system, sound deadening , not to mention all hoses and fuel/transmission lines, shocks( stock) suspension rubber, ground leads and deoxit fuse-relay and every electrical connection accessible.
It took over a year but I am now going on two years, 6000 plus miles of issue free bliss. In the end, its all about driving your car and knowing it will always get you from point A to B comfortably, safely and with no problems that could have been prevented.
It took over a year but I am now going on two years, 6000 plus miles of issue free bliss. In the end, its all about driving your car and knowing it will always get you from point A to B comfortably, safely and with no problems that could have been prevented.
02-07-2015, 10:27 PM
#33
I would go with improved instrument cluster lighting. original is pathetic. good thing I don't like night driving. I'll be installing the 928MS aluminum coolant tank...doubt the next guy would want the epoxy patched one on it now. (hey, it doesn't leak!) Like you, I usually buy something because I like it and have no intention of selling it. Can't figure guys who tire of their toys (and wives) so quickly.
02-07-2015, 10:57 PM
#34
You can call me Otis
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unless your car is a Cobalt GT, or has less than 25K miles with all maintenance records, make it your own. Keep in mind not to do anything that cannot be undone., Interiors can be changed for preference, and Plastidip peels off. Attrition adds to value, in another 30 years minor mods will not matter as much.
02-14-2015, 07:52 PM
#36
Drifting
If your 928 is 82 or younger or an '83 with a production # lower than 1000, check to see if it has steel lower ball joint mounts. The older cars had alloy mounts that stress-fail as they get older.
02-14-2015, 08:41 PM
#37
Just saw this one.
Trust me, everything that Brad wants done I'll ensure it's reversible just in case. Having said that, most anything can be done to make the level of enjoyment to today's higher standards and all of it I've done in the past
Hell, Mr. Olf Frat has put 4000 plus miles on the car so he's over the 16,000 mark on a 34 year old car, not bad if ya ask me. Almost more miles in one year than the previous 34. 
Trust me, everything that Brad wants done I'll ensure it's reversible just in case. Having said that, most anything can be done to make the level of enjoyment to today's higher standards and all of it I've done in the past
Hell, Mr. Olf Frat has put 4000 plus miles on the car so he's over the 16,000 mark on a 34 year old car, not bad if ya ask me. Almost more miles in one year than the previous 34.
02-14-2015, 08:42 PM
#38
Just had to replace the joints on a mid production '84 that had aluminum ball joints. Surprised me.
02-14-2015, 11:39 PM
#39
Pro
Thread Starter
Remember the old Disney cartoons featuring debates between the devil sitting on Goofy's left shoulder and the angel sitting on his right shoulder?
Well, devil Sean sits on my left shoulder urging, "Drive it. Drive it!" Angel Sean sits on my right shoulder cautioning, "Respect it. Respect it!"
Me and my car are lucky to be in better hands than Allstate's.
Brad
Well, devil Sean sits on my left shoulder urging, "Drive it. Drive it!" Angel Sean sits on my right shoulder cautioning, "Respect it. Respect it!"
Me and my car are lucky to be in better hands than Allstate's.
Brad
02-15-2015, 08:36 AM
#40
Nordschleife Master
Be careful where you take it, but drive it.
Maybe not another trip to California...
For a while.
02-15-2015, 10:21 AM
#41
Three Wheelin'
Pics of the car? Would love to see some pics.
Year wouldn't matter, all 928s are special.
I remember about 3 to 4 years back when the low mileage GTSs had sold for over 100,000 dollars an early 80 model showed up for sale with low miles, 6000 miles or it could have been 12,000 to 15,000 miles, it had below 20K miles. The car sparked a lot of interest here, due to the low miles.
A 928 original factory new condition interior is valued a lot. Original paint is also valued.
I would keep it low miles, buy another one with higher miles if you want to drive a 928 every day and mod it.
Year wouldn't matter, all 928s are special.
I remember about 3 to 4 years back when the low mileage GTSs had sold for over 100,000 dollars an early 80 model showed up for sale with low miles, 6000 miles or it could have been 12,000 to 15,000 miles, it had below 20K miles. The car sparked a lot of interest here, due to the low miles.
A 928 original factory new condition interior is valued a lot. Original paint is also valued.
I would keep it low miles, buy another one with higher miles if you want to drive a 928 every day and mod it.
02-17-2015, 03:24 AM
#42
Nordschleife Master
Brad.....your car is a fantastic example that's been unmolested.
Its been said before and is worth remembering; bring the car back to full factory new spec with changes to more modern material (think brake pads as example; lights also) then drive the car a lot to evaluate what you may want to add for your pleasure.
Its been said before and is worth remembering; bring the car back to full factory new spec with changes to more modern material (think brake pads as example; lights also) then drive the car a lot to evaluate what you may want to add for your pleasure.
02-17-2015, 05:12 AM
#43
Pro
Thread Starter
Sorry, I'm lousy at taking pics and ignorant about posting them. And Mecum didn't post any pics of it in their advance materials that I could lift, or even have it listed on the xeroxed bid sheet for the day, which is why I was able to buy it for so little. Just form a mental image of how a 1981 would look if it had been garage kept while driven normally for about a year after when it left the showroom.
I did not buy it as an investment or show car. I bought it to give me driving pleasure in my remaining years. It is doing that! Buying another to use as a driver while keeping this one as garage decoration isn't in my plans. But putting the kind of money I've put into it thus far to overcome the effects of the many years it mostly sat in prior owners' garages has not felt like a problem given what I paid for it and the pleasure driving it gives me. And heck, Sean and Roger have families to feed.
Resale price is totally irrelevant to me as I'll be dead when it happens. I do, though, feel a certain obligation to respect the car for what it is. That is why I started this thread. I feel no need to personalize the car; just an interest in taking advantage of newer technology that does not change the car's essence.
I feel I have received great feedback from this thread and I really appreciate it. Reversible upgrades seems right. I'm going that way. As an example, I bought a center arm rest and then upgraded that with a higher new lid. Those changes improved the car's functionality and comfort for me. But that console is just resting in place. I did not do the carpet cutting, wood strip gluing, or screw hole drilling required to make it a permanent installation. H4 headlamps are on my next to-do list, but I'll keep the originals so this is reversible.
Again, I really do appreciate the responses to this thread. They have provided valuable guidance. Thanks! See some of you at Spring Fling!
Brad
I did not buy it as an investment or show car. I bought it to give me driving pleasure in my remaining years. It is doing that! Buying another to use as a driver while keeping this one as garage decoration isn't in my plans. But putting the kind of money I've put into it thus far to overcome the effects of the many years it mostly sat in prior owners' garages has not felt like a problem given what I paid for it and the pleasure driving it gives me. And heck, Sean and Roger have families to feed.
Resale price is totally irrelevant to me as I'll be dead when it happens. I do, though, feel a certain obligation to respect the car for what it is. That is why I started this thread. I feel no need to personalize the car; just an interest in taking advantage of newer technology that does not change the car's essence.
I feel I have received great feedback from this thread and I really appreciate it. Reversible upgrades seems right. I'm going that way. As an example, I bought a center arm rest and then upgraded that with a higher new lid. Those changes improved the car's functionality and comfort for me. But that console is just resting in place. I did not do the carpet cutting, wood strip gluing, or screw hole drilling required to make it a permanent installation. H4 headlamps are on my next to-do list, but I'll keep the originals so this is reversible.
Again, I really do appreciate the responses to this thread. They have provided valuable guidance. Thanks! See some of you at Spring Fling!
Brad
02-18-2015, 03:54 AM
#44
Burning Brakes
Some of you will disagree (well, already have) - but I do not buy cars with a potential resale in mind and/or as potential investments, but rather to enjoy them the way they were meant to be enjoyed. And, while there may have been one low-mileage GTS that sold for $100K, most 928s these days aren't even worth a quarter of that. Anyone that thinks they're going to get more than $30-$40K for a 928 of any vintage and in any condition in the foreseeable future is IMHO delusional.
Now, my car is an '89 GT (VIN 1100), with complete service records since day 1. The original Club Sports were gone by the time I bought it 13 years ago, but it did have proper GTS Cup 2s with the right offsets, with the rest being completely stock. Back then it had about 110K Km on the clock and a very freshly rebuilt engine. It now has about 160K Km, rebuilt heads, rebuilt tranny, rebuilt LSD (repacked to my liking with a bit more lockup), proper 928 offset Kinesis K57s with matching Porsche color crests, black leather Sparco Milano Prestige seats, Momo Club 4 steering wheel, custom aluminum pedals, an RMB, adjustable Konis, an analog 90+ clock and a period-correct-looking Nakamichi head unit (with amber illumination and a "pixelated" diplay like the bottom of the dash) with MB Quart separates and a small removable Clarion-powered JL Audio sub, big reds, s/s brake lines, RB rotors with Hawk HP+ pads, Aero mirrors and a "Strosek GTR" fiberglass rear wing from Jacquemond... and that's not including upgraded engine bits (tensioner, hoses, lines, coolant tank, rad, fuel pumps, clutch & flywheel, HT wires, etc.), plus I am sure I've left out a thing or two. Now, I held on to most of the stuff I had replaced exactly because of the resale value reasoning, but eventually I realized that it all just sat there taking up space - because I have no intentions of ever selling the car or putting the crappy LCD clock, Blaupunkt cassette deck or OEM mirrors back on, nor can I imagine anyone ever wanting to put those things back on. The car is tastefully modified and exactly the way I want it to be, drives better than it ever has or ever could in OEM trim, it gets babied but regularly exercised including occasional HPDE events at the track, and puts a massive smile on my face every time I fire it up. So again, if you actually intend to drive the car instead of keeping it in your garage in hopes that one day it just might appreciate a tiny little bit (which, being a 928 with no racing heritage is extremely unlikely), I still don't see the point of holding on to the original stuff. It's a freakin' car, and presumably you bought it to enjoy it and drive it, not as a (bad) investment. Whether it’s attrition or nostalgia because of a few 80's movies with a 928 in them, if I am still alive in 30 years and able to get in and drive the thing, I know it will put an even bigger smile on my face then. It's no different than a fine, vintage bottle of wine. Some people drop $600 on a bottle and keep it because it might go up in value. When I drop $600 on a bottle, I drink it - and I can't think of a better occasion than after a day of blasting in the GT around Mosport.
Keep it stock or make it yours if you wish - but above anything else, DRIVE the thing and enjoy it for what it represents. Looking at a 928 in terms of resale value or as a potential investment is... well, silly. It's not a Le Mans winning 917 or a Ferrari 250 GT California.
Now, my car is an '89 GT (VIN 1100), with complete service records since day 1. The original Club Sports were gone by the time I bought it 13 years ago, but it did have proper GTS Cup 2s with the right offsets, with the rest being completely stock. Back then it had about 110K Km on the clock and a very freshly rebuilt engine. It now has about 160K Km, rebuilt heads, rebuilt tranny, rebuilt LSD (repacked to my liking with a bit more lockup), proper 928 offset Kinesis K57s with matching Porsche color crests, black leather Sparco Milano Prestige seats, Momo Club 4 steering wheel, custom aluminum pedals, an RMB, adjustable Konis, an analog 90+ clock and a period-correct-looking Nakamichi head unit (with amber illumination and a "pixelated" diplay like the bottom of the dash) with MB Quart separates and a small removable Clarion-powered JL Audio sub, big reds, s/s brake lines, RB rotors with Hawk HP+ pads, Aero mirrors and a "Strosek GTR" fiberglass rear wing from Jacquemond... and that's not including upgraded engine bits (tensioner, hoses, lines, coolant tank, rad, fuel pumps, clutch & flywheel, HT wires, etc.), plus I am sure I've left out a thing or two. Now, I held on to most of the stuff I had replaced exactly because of the resale value reasoning, but eventually I realized that it all just sat there taking up space - because I have no intentions of ever selling the car or putting the crappy LCD clock, Blaupunkt cassette deck or OEM mirrors back on, nor can I imagine anyone ever wanting to put those things back on. The car is tastefully modified and exactly the way I want it to be, drives better than it ever has or ever could in OEM trim, it gets babied but regularly exercised including occasional HPDE events at the track, and puts a massive smile on my face every time I fire it up. So again, if you actually intend to drive the car instead of keeping it in your garage in hopes that one day it just might appreciate a tiny little bit (which, being a 928 with no racing heritage is extremely unlikely), I still don't see the point of holding on to the original stuff. It's a freakin' car, and presumably you bought it to enjoy it and drive it, not as a (bad) investment. Whether it’s attrition or nostalgia because of a few 80's movies with a 928 in them, if I am still alive in 30 years and able to get in and drive the thing, I know it will put an even bigger smile on my face then. It's no different than a fine, vintage bottle of wine. Some people drop $600 on a bottle and keep it because it might go up in value. When I drop $600 on a bottle, I drink it - and I can't think of a better occasion than after a day of blasting in the GT around Mosport.
Keep it stock or make it yours if you wish - but above anything else, DRIVE the thing and enjoy it for what it represents. Looking at a 928 in terms of resale value or as a potential investment is... well, silly. It's not a Le Mans winning 917 or a Ferrari 250 GT California.
